Author Topic: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies  (Read 18368 times)

Offline ist5551

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My name is David Lee and I am the founder of Intervention Services and Technologies, Inc.  For many years I was directly and indirectly responsible for helping over one thousand families members get their loved ones to Narconons throughout North America, a program that I once believed in, advocated for, and endorsed.  A program that I no longer endorse in any way.

I must first state that I am not reacting to anything that Narconon, Scientology or anyone has “done” to me.  I am not an angry terminated staff member, or been disconnected (until now, probably), or had a major falling out because of anything personal.  I am simply here because of my own conscience, because of what I have seen and the damages that I believe Narconon has done by misleading addicts struggling to find recovery and the families that have often times invested everything they had on the hope that maybe it would work.   I would also like to thank Mary McConnell of this site, and also Lucas Catton, without whom I might have not had the courage to make this final step. 

Around Christmas of 2001, my family found Narconon.  I had tried and failed at many traditional approaches.  My mother prayed for the right answer and thought it had come in the form of Narconon.  Here was something different for her son.  It says it has a 76% success rate.  For those odds, my mother would have sold her soul to save her son.  Instead, she took out a loan that she couldn't afford.  If it had been a million dollars she would have found the way to pay it.  She just felt that I was dying, that she was losing her son.  She knew nothing and was told nothing about Scientology...and off I went.

I flew to Canada and found out right away that it had L. Ron Hubbard written all over it.  But, at the time, I wasn't mad, I was fascinated.  The treatment center was a small and new Narconon that had just opened up in Canada.  Only six “students” at a time, but it had about 10 Scientologist staff members.  Not Narconon grads, but actual Scientologists.  I had never met a Scientologist before.  I liked them right away.  There the staff told me things that I never heard in an AA meeting.  That I didn't have to be an addict forever, that I could be something more.  I heard about power, control, confronting my life.  I heard about responsibility, the evils of traditional programs and psychiatry, a duty to help others, and having an effect on the world.  I heard about changing the world.

AA was about humility.  This wasn't about humility at all.  I never met anyone who encouraged the typical “grand” thinking that I had as an addict.  I loved it.

I was offered a job almost immediately.  Here was something amazing to me.  I went to sleep one night a patient.  I woke up a staff member.   Newly sober, emotionally immature, not stable at all.  But now in charge of helping others to find Narconon and, perhaps, Scientology.  In the Narconon world, your actual sobriety means very little, I have found.  What matters is what “ethics condition” you are in.  A strange but attractive philosophy.  You could have 2 weeks sober, but after a condition workup, be essentially in a higher level than someone who had abstained for many years.  In AA, you had to earn it over years and time.  Here, you could find admiration and respect in a few days.  We never spoke of “clean time”, sobriety dates, or anything like that.  It was about conditions, cause, effects, control. 

After I left I began doing interventions for Narconons across the US.  Within 7 years, we kept expanding and were eventually the largest provider of interventions for Narconons that had ever been and perhaps, ever since.  Much of that time, I believed that I had a grand purpose.  I believed in Narconon, although I would continually relapse.  Be taken off lines, taken to a Narconon for a “retread” workup, put back on lines.  Throughout all this I still believed in Narconon, I just believed that I had missed something.  Sometimes I thought I needed a more thorough PTS handling (identify external factors that were causing you problems), other times it was TR's (training routines) where I would sit in a chair motionless for 10 hours a day, weeks on end.  Maybe it was that I hadn't written enough overts (harmful actions, secrets, etc), maybe a more thorough Sauna program.  Through it all, it was  usually suggested that unless I got on the bridge of Scientology and got into deeper auditing, I would probably never find true stability.  I could just never afford what they suggested.  “A mere $200k and you can have total freedom”  Ouch.

I eventually found that I was losing faith in the Narconon program.  Not so much because of my lack of stability (I still felt I was the failure), but because of what I saw on a more and more frequent basis amongst other Narconon grads, staff members, and Scientologists.  Here are the most major of the concerns that I began having:

   Narconon Reg's (salespeople) seldom if ever were honest to families that Narconon was based upon L.Ron Hubbard and connected to Scientology.  At the time, I was proud of Narconon and couldn't understand why someone who had that philosophy would be ashamed.  I've never met a Christian who lied about being a Christian, the bible or their faith.  If we suggested to Narconon that we would be transparent, we were usually told not to, that they would “handle that” after the client arrived.  Many families arrived without understanding it was connected to Scientology.  I would say that 90% of the time families were upset it was because of this issue.  It happened almost constantly.  Many said they wouldn't have minded if Narconon told them up front, but since they didn't...how can they be trusted now?
   Every time I did a retread or crossed paths with other Narconon staff members, I found frequent relapsers just like myself, it was just hidden.  I remember on occasion where new staff members would approach me in confidence and say that “no one who works here has stayed sober.  I'm worried.  You know other Narconons.  Is this normal, David?”.  I believe that I only know of less than 10 Narconon graduates who became staff members and stayed 100% sober without picking up a drink or a drug since graduating.  Less than 10 out of hundreds and hundreds that I have crossed paths with in the last 10 years.  Apparently they too felt that a “condition” state was more important than actual time sober.  A strange thing for an organization so adamant about stats.  I think that “time sober” should be the most important statistic in a rehab.  Perhaps I'm wrong.   Many families went to Narconon because they were told of a 76% success rate.  In my experience this is simply not true.  And when their loved one didn't stay clean, they just assumed they were on the wrong side of the high success rate.
   Clients were being lied to about counseling at Narconon.  Prior to coming in, many families were being told that their loved one would have more “one on one counseling” than anywhere else.  In reality, I know and knew that Narconon has almost zero clinical counseling in the traditional sense.  The “one on one” aspect they refer to is one addict sitting across from another.  Which I guess would mean that the last time I was in Detox I had 20 counselors helping me...unfortunately, they were detoxing clients as well.

I was eventually thrown out of Intervention Services and Technologies, Inc due to frequent relapsing.  It was the best thing my brother could have done.  During my time away, I had much time to reflect upon the truth, the choices that I had made and the life that I lived.  I moved into a 12-step halfway house and remained there for 18 months.  I am coming up on 4 years clean and sober.  A true 4 years sober.  I don't know what condition that I am in, but I am happy enough to have real sobriety.  I am a current member of traditional recovery.  This isn't meant to be a “my recovery vs. Narconon recovery”.  But I do believe that with true recovery comes honesty, accountability, sobriety and purity.  These are things I was taught at Narconon, but didn't actually see much of in my time with them.

I sincerely and truly regret that many families that we worked with were being misled.  I also regret that I did nothing to prevent it and was a party to getting their loved one's to Narconon without them knowing all the facts.  It's ironic that when I was in the Narconon Universe they always said that an “overt of omission” is a “failure to act that results in the harm of another”.  I could have drawn the line long ago, and regret that I stayed in that universe longer than my conscious gave me warning.  I had misgivings long before writing this.  I should have made a statement years ago.

In the last 3 years since my return at Intervention Services and Technologies, Inc. we have had to come to terms with many things.  For a time, we felt that if we promoted 12-step recovery after Narconon, or stopped referring clients there, or if we were transparent with family members about Narconon and its connections with Scientology that would be enough.  I, and we, no longer feel that way.  And although working with Narconon has all but fallen completely away, I feel that unless I make this statement the door is still open.

I and we here at Intervention Services and Technologies, Inc. will officially no longer work in any capacity with any treatment facility that endorses, promotes, or advocates Narconon or Scientology principles.

This includes any facility within the actual Narconon Network or anything affiliated with them or Scientology.  My suggestions to those there are, in my experience, that if you bring any form of Scientology or Narconon principles in your universe you very well may find a lack of recovery, honesty, sobriety, emotional stability, and instead have all the chaos that goes with it.  There comes a time in recovery when you must draw a line in the sand.  Sooner of later you have to make a choice.

I think it is important to understand that most of us who find our way into the Narconon or Scientology universe do so initially because our life had fallen apart.  Maybe we had tried other methods, and were desperate to find something different.  I, for one, was so grateful in the beginning when I got to Narconon.  I didn't know there were other options until then.  I had almost given up.  In the end, I was so reluctant to let go of Narconon as a recovery path, because I felt it was the last house on the block, even if it wasn't really working for me.  Letting go of your last hope isn't always easy. 

I would like to personally apologize to those here, the family members and addicts who we have worked with through Narconon.  If you didn't find success there, I am deeply sorry.  I hope that you never give up searching for recovery.  And to my staff, many of whom aren't Narconon people, I'd like to apologize for dragging you into a universe that you probably didn't believe or even belong in. 

It is safe to assume that those who are reading this are not all antagonistic towards Narconon or Scientology.  Perhaps you are a fellow ex-coworker at a Narconon, or a former friend.  Or perhaps you were sent this, even though you are probably told not to read Black PR sites as I was.  So I would like to speak directly to you, the current Narconon staff member.  The one who may be there...but is having doubts.

Many dozens of ex-Narconon employees have reached out to me over the last several years.  The story is always the same.  They didn't like the dishonesty.  One day you will probably find yourself in the same position that I and many other people have over the years.  Should I do what's right or should I do what's easy?  Maybe you are passionate about helping others and Narconon gave you a chance to do it.  But when you eventually realize, as most of us have, that the relapsing amongst your coworkers is more common than you think, that lying for “the greatest good” is not ok, then you have a choice.  What if you find one day...that the success rate isn't true?  You can either leave, or get honest about what you sell.  But will you be permitted to?  Ask and see.

And I speak from personal experience here.  You may eventually find yourself on a spiritual path of true recovery.  And one day you may wake up and you can no longer ignore the voices of the mothers, fathers, brothers and family members who reached out to you in desperation and found hope in Narconon...only to be replaced with major concerns about being misled.  Although there have been hundreds, perhaps thousands of family members I have spoken to, one in particular stands out.  I wish I remembered her name.  I was working at Narconon.  I spent an hour on the phone with her and in the end, she was sobbing for joy.  “Thank you David, I had given up hope and I now know that my prayers have been answered.  Narconon is going to save my son.  Thank you, thank you, thank you!”  And as I hung up the phone, I was aware of something new that I felt for maybe the first time, in my heart. That Narconon wasn't going to work for her son.  She had sold everything that she had on a chance to save her son.  I don't know why I think of her more than anyone else.  There were many.  But, I think, that it is because she probably sounded exactly like my mother when she reached out over 10 years ago and found Narconon.  And when my mother hung up the phone, she sold everything that she had for a chance that she believed would now save her poor and lost son.

Again, I am not angry at anything that Narconon or Scientology “did” to me.  In reality, they never did anything other than try and offer to help me.   The lack of honesty about Scientology, counseling and their often posted success rate is what I have the most issue with.  To be deceptive about one point opens a whole series of questions about the integrity of the other points.  And I don't intend to single any one person or entity out.  Anything that I speak of can probably be found at most Narconons.  I am fully responsible for the choices and decisions that I have made in my life.  I know there are probably some that have found a great life after Narconon and I don't want to take that away.  I know of others, who although still relapsing, have found post-Narconon life better than the alternative.   I was never a “great” example of a Narconon graduate, staff member or even of a Scientologist.  I doubt I would be considered, at any time, their “golden boy” and probably know less about Scientology than the people on these sites.  I just traveled in many, many Narconon circles.  And I can only speak of my experiences, thoughts and feelings, and how they have changed over the years.

I doubt Narconon will change.  I doubt they will tell everyone who calls that they are connected to Scientology.  I doubt they will really evaluate their posted success rates and how the program is “sold” over the phone.  But, I do know, that for as long as they don't...there are others who will.

Sincerely,

David Lee
Founder
Intervention Services and Technologies, Inc.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 16:12 by ist5551 »

Offline snippy

  • Supressive Person
  • Posts: 396
Wow - thanks for adding your experiences here. First hand knowledge is always the best. Looking forward to anything you may care to add, ist5551.
 :w:e:l:c:o:m:e:

Offline CoolHand

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Hi David,

Thank you for sharing that.  Nicely written.  You will find a wealth of support from the world outside of the little Narconon/Scientology circle for making the decision and voicing your opinion, both socially and professionally.

Namaste,

Luke

Offline Mary_McConnell

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    • Formerly Fooled Finally Free of The Deceptive Cult Called Scientology
Thank you so much. I know that took courage. I'll be back in a bit to comment further but just wanted to say Thanks. Enjoy your new freedom!

I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline SocialTransparency

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My name is David Lee and I am the founder of Intervention Services and Technologies, Inc.  For many years I was directly and indirectly responsible for helping over one thousand families members get their loved ones to Narconons throughout North America, a program that I once believed in, advocated for, and endorsed.  A program that I no longer endorse in any way.

I must first state that I am not reacting to anything that Narconon, Scientology or anyone has “done” to me.  I am not an angry terminated staff member, or been disconnected (until now, probably), or had a major falling out because of anything personal.  I am simply here because of my own conscience, because of what I have seen and the damages that I believe Narconon has done by misleading addicts struggling to find recovery and the families that have often times invested everything they had on the hope that maybe it would work.   I would also like to thank Mary McConnell of this site, and also Lucas Catton, without whom I might have not had the courage to make this final step. 

Around Christmas of 2001, my family found Narconon.  I had tried and failed at many traditional approaches.  My mother prayed for the right answer and thought it had come in the form of Narconon.  Here was something different for her son.  It says it has a 76% success rate.  For those odds, my mother would have sold her soul to save her son.  Instead, she took out a loan that she couldn't afford.  If it had been a million dollars she would have found the way to pay it.  She just felt that I was dying, that she was losing her son.  She knew nothing and was told nothing about Scientology...and off I went.

I flew to Canada and found out right away that it had L. Ron Hubbard written all over it.  But, at the time, I wasn't mad, I was fascinated.  The treatment center was a small and new Narconon that had just opened up in Canada.  Only six “students” at a time, but it had about 10 Scientologist staff members.  Not Narconon grads, but actual Scientologists.  I had never met a Scientologist before.  I liked them right away.  There the staff told me things that I never heard in an AA meeting.  That I didn't have to be an addict forever, that I could be something more.  I heard about power, control, confronting my life.  I heard about responsibility, the evils of traditional programs and psychiatry, a duty to help others, and having an effect on the world.  I heard about changing the world.

AA was about humility.  This wasn't about humility at all.  I never met anyone who encouraged the typical “grand” thinking that I had as an addict.  I loved it.

I was offered a job almost immediately.  Here was something amazing to me.  I went to sleep one night a patient.  I woke up a staff member.   Newly sober, emotionally immature, not stable at all.  But now in charge of helping others to find Narconon and, perhaps, Scientology.  In the Narconon world, your actual sobriety means very little, I have found.  What matters is what “ethics condition” you are in.  A strange but attractive philosophy.  You could have 2 weeks sober, but after a condition workup, be essentially in a higher level than someone who had abstained for many years.  In AA, you had to earn it over years and time.  Here, you could find admiration and respect in a few days.  We never spoke of “clean time”, sobriety dates, or anything like that.  It was about conditions, cause, effects, control. 

After I left I began doing interventions for Narconons across the US.  Within 7 years, we kept expanding and were eventually the largest provider of interventions for Narconons that had ever been and perhaps, ever since.  Much of that time, I believed that I had a grand purpose.  I believed in Narconon, although I would continually relapse.  Be taken off lines, taken to a Narconon for a “retread” workup, put back on lines.  Throughout all this I still believed in Narconon, I just believed that I had missed something.  Sometimes I thought I needed a more thorough PTS handling (identify external factors that were causing you problems), other times it was TR's (training routines) where I would sit in a chair motionless for 10 hours a day, weeks on end.  Maybe it was that I hadn't written enough overts (harmful actions, secrets, etc), maybe a more thorough Sauna program.  Through it all, it was  usually suggested that unless I got on the bridge of Scientology and got into deeper auditing, I would probably never find true stability.  I could just never afford what they suggested.  “A mere $200k and you can have total freedom”  Ouch.

I eventually found that I was losing faith in the Narconon program.  Not so much because of my lack of stability (I still felt I was the failure), but because of what I saw on a more and more frequent basis amongst other Narconon grads, staff members, and Scientologists.  Here are the most major of the concerns that I began having:

   Narconon Reg's (salespeople) seldom if ever were honest to families that Narconon was based upon L.Ron Hubbard and connected to Scientology.  At the time, I was proud of Narconon and couldn't understand why someone who had that philosophy would be ashamed.  I've never met a Christian who lied about being a Christian, the bible or their faith.  If we suggested to Narconon that we would be transparent, we were usually told not to, that they would “handle that” after the client arrived.  Many families arrived without understanding it was connected to Scientology.  I would say that 90% of the time families were upset it was because of this issue.  It happened almost constantly.  Many said they wouldn't have minded if Narconon told them up front, but since they didn't...how can they be trusted now?
   Every time I did a retread or crossed paths with other Narconon staff members, I found frequent relapsers just like myself, it was just hidden.  I remember on occasion where new staff members would approach me in confidence and say that “no one who works here has stayed sober.  I'm worried.  You know other Narconons.  Is this normal, David?”.  I believe that I only know of less than 10 Narconon graduates who became staff members and stayed 100% sober without picking up a drink or a drug since graduating.  Less than 10 out of hundreds and hundreds that I have crossed paths with in the last 10 years.  Apparently they too felt that a “condition” state was more important than actual time sober.  A strange thing for an organization so adamant about stats.  I think that “time sober” should be the most important statistic in a rehab.  Perhaps I'm wrong.   Many families went to Narconon because they were told of a 76% success rate.  In my experience this is simply not true.  And when their loved one didn't stay clean, they just assumed they were on the wrong side of the high success rate.
   Clients were being lied to about counseling at Narconon.  Prior to coming in, many families were being told that their loved one would have more “one on one counseling” than anywhere else.  In reality, I know and knew that Narconon has almost zero clinical counseling in the traditional sense.  The “one on one” aspect they refer to is one addict sitting across from another.  Which I guess would mean that the last time I was in Detox I had 20 counselors helping me...unfortunately, they were detoxing clients as well.

I was eventually thrown out of Intervention Services and Technologies, Inc due to frequent relapsing.  It was the best thing my brother could have done.  During my time away, I had much time to reflect upon the truth, the choices that I had made and the life that I lived.  I moved into a 12-step halfway house and remained there for 18 months.  I am coming up on 4 years clean and sober.  A true 4 years sober.  I don't know what condition that I am in, but I am happy enough to have real sobriety.  I am a current member of traditional recovery.  This isn't meant to be a “my recovery vs. Narconon recovery”.  But I do believe that with true recovery comes honesty, accountability, sobriety and purity.  These are things I was taught at Narconon, but didn't actually see much of in my time with them.

I sincerely and truly regret that many families that we worked with were being misled.  I also regret that I did nothing to prevent it and was a party to getting their loved one's to Narconon without them knowing all the facts.  It's ironic that when I was in the Narconon Universe they always said that an “overt of omission” is a “failure to act that results in the harm of another”.  I could have drawn the line long ago, and regret that I stayed in that universe longer than my conscious gave me warning.  I had misgivings long before writing this.  I should have made a statement years ago.

In the last 3 years since my return at Intervention Services and Technologies, Inc. we have had to come to terms with many things.  For a time, we felt that if we promoted 12-step recovery after Narconon, or stopped referring clients there, or if we were transparent with family members about Narconon and its connections with Scientology that would be enough.  I, and we, no longer feel that way.  And although working with Narconon has all but fallen completely away, I feel that unless I make this statement the door is still open.

I and we here at Intervention Services and Technologies, Inc. will officially no longer work in any capacity with any treatment facility that endorses, promotes, or advocates Narconon or Scientology principles.

This includes any facility within the actual Narconon Network, Best Drug Rehabilitation in Michigan, and A Forever Recovery.  My suggestions to those there are, in my experience, that if you bring any form of Scientology or Narconon principles in your universe you very well may find a lack of recovery, honesty, sobriety, emotional stability, and instead have all the chaos that goes with it.  I believe that AFR was designed to be a good place with multiple paths to recovery.  I was there in the beginning.  However, there comes a time in recovery when you must draw a line in the sand.  If one path brings down the others then what have you left?  Sooner of later you have to make a choice.

I think it is important to understand that most of us who find our way into the Narconon or Scientology universe do so initially because our life had fallen apart.  Maybe we had tried other methods, and were desperate to find something different.  I, for one, was so grateful in the beginning when I got to Narconon.  I didn't know there were other options until then.  I had almost given up.  In the end, I was so reluctant to let go of Narconon as a recovery path, because I felt it was the last house on the block, even if it wasn't really working for me.  Letting go of your last hope isn't always easy. 

I would like to personally apologize to those here, the family members and addicts who we have worked with through Narconon.  If you didn't find success there, I am deeply sorry.  I hope that you never give up searching for recovery.  And to my staff, many of whom aren't Narconon people, I'd like to apologize for dragging you into a universe that you probably didn't believe or even belong in. 

It is safe to assume that those who are reading this are not all antagonistic towards Narconon or Scientology.  Perhaps you are a fellow ex-coworker at a Narconon, or a former friend.  Or perhaps you were sent this, even though you are probably told not to read Black PR sites as I was.  So I would like to speak directly to you, the current Narconon staff member.  The one who may be there...but is having doubts.

Many dozens of ex-Narconon employees have reached out to me over the last several years.  The story is always the same.  They didn't like the dishonesty.  One day you will probably find yourself in the same position that I and many other people have over the years.  Should I do what's right or should I do what's easy?  Maybe you are passionate about helping others and Narconon gave you a chance to do it.  But when you eventually realize, as most of us have, that the relapsing amongst your coworkers is more common than you think, that lying for “the greatest good” is not ok, then you have a choice.  What if you find one day...that the success rate isn't true?  You can either leave, or get honest about what you sell.  But will you be permitted to?  Ask and see.

And I speak from personal experience here.  You may eventually find yourself on a spiritual path of true recovery.  And one day you may wake up and you can no longer ignore the voices of the mothers, fathers, brothers and family members who reached out to you in desperation and found hope in Narconon...only to be replaced with major concerns about being misled.  Although there have been hundreds, perhaps thousands of family members I have spoken to, one in particular stands out.  I wish I remembered her name.  I was working at Narconon.  I spent an hour on the phone with her and in the end, she was sobbing for joy.  “Thank you David, I had given up hope and I now know that my prayers have been answered.  Narconon is going to save my son.  Thank you, thank you, thank you!”  And as I hung up the phone, I was aware of something new that I felt for maybe the first time, in my heart. That Narconon wasn't going to work for her son.  She had sold everything that she had on a chance to save her son.  I don't know why I think of her more than anyone else.  There were many.  But, I think, that it is because she probably sounded exactly like my mother when she reached out over 10 years ago and found Narconon.  And when my mother hung up the phone, she sold everything that she had for a chance that she believed would now save her poor and lost son.

Again, I am not angry at anything that Narconon or Scientology “did” to me.  In reality, they never did anything other than try and offer to help me.   The lack of honesty about Scientology, counseling and their often posted success rate is what I have the most issue with.  To be deceptive about one point opens a whole series of questions about the integrity of the other points.  And I don't intend to single any one person or entity out.  Anything that I speak of can probably be found at most Narconons.  I am fully responsible for the choices and decisions that I have made in my life.  I know there are probably some that have found a great life after Narconon and I don't want to take that away.  I know of others, who although still relapsing, have found post-Narconon life better than the alternative.   I was never a “great” example of a Narconon graduate, staff member or even of a Scientologist.  I doubt I would be considered, at any time, their “golden boy” and probably know less about Scientology than the people on these sites.  I just traveled in many, many Narconon circles.  And I can only speak of my experiences, thoughts and feelings, and how they have changed over the years.

I doubt Narconon will change.  I doubt they will tell everyone who calls that they are connected to Scientology.  I doubt they will really evaluate their posted success rates and how the program is “sold” over the phone.  But, I do know, that for as long as they don't...there are others who will.

Sincerely,

David Lee
Founder
Intervention Services and Technologies, Inc.
David,thank you for your openness and sincerity. You are one stand up guy! 

Offline ethercat

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Welcome to the Tipping Point, David Lee.  Very moving piece you've written here.  Thank you.

Quote
There the staff told me things that I never heard in an AA meeting.  That I didn't have to be an addict forever, that I could be something more.  I heard about power, control, confronting my life.  I heard about responsibility, the evils of traditional programs and psychiatry, a duty to help others, and having an effect on the world.  I heard about changing the world.

AA was about humility.  This wasn't about humility at all.  I never met anyone who encouraged the typical “grand” thinking that I had as an addict.  I loved it.

Thanks for giving us some insight into why someone would choose Narconon.  Isn't it sad that this empowering feeling is packaged up with all of the things we object to in Narconon?

And congratulations on your upcoming 4 years sobriety!  You did that!  Not AA, but you.   ||O||
   Narconon Reviews
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Offline SocialTransparency

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 After reading David Lee,s well written letter here on RFTTP,it opened my eyes a little. Once again,well meaning people being steered in a direction that sounds wonderful yet has a very troubling foundation. If I said "Scientology is synonymous with dishonesty" would I be misguided with this train of thought? I personally do not think so.

 Each and every one of these NarCONon facilities are helmed by to my understanding long term upper level scientologists. This apparently lays the groundwork for a culture based on dishonesty. Scientology and ethical behavior are not compatible. History has shown us this time and again. Try as I may,I cannot get past this culture of dishonesty and what I perceive as either shame on the part of NarCONon in not shouting from the rooftops that yes we are a scientology based entity OR something far more likely and predictable,that being human greed.

 I'll go with the human greed scenario as I personally feel religion plays absolutely no part in this tragic comedy.

 

Offline BMF

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  • Do or Do Not. There is no try.
David,

I must say i am impressed.  One phrase comes to mind here, "you cant teach an old dog new tricks."  In this case i am the old dog.  Today you taught me a new trick, forgiveness and humility.  I apologize for any harsh posts i may have written.  I hope you can forgive me.  i stand corrected.  Thank you and i support you in your journey.  You may not know me here, but you absolutely do.

I look forward to seeing more great things from you.

BMF
"But now," says the Once-ler, "Now that you're here,
the word of the Lorax seems perfectly clear.
UNLESS someone like you,
cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. Its not!"   - Dr. Seuss

Offline mefree

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David - Congratulations on your continued sobriety.

I truly understand why Narconon's promises appealed to you. It must have been painful to face the truth of Narconon and the referral scam in sobriety. Remembering your mother's willingness to help you find recovery and watch it happen over and over again with others, had to be part of the wake-up call.

Thanks to Mary and Lucas for encouraging you to speak out here. They set a good example for others.

I'm so impressed by all of you, BMF, Lucas, Mary and others!
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Intelligence

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BRAVO David and thank you for your story. :)

David Love
An Ol' Irish Quote:
“You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, 'Why not?'”

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2013, 22:39 »
Here is how Narconon uses Scientology and gets it's graduates to do the same.

In this case, Narconon, A Forever Recovery and Best Drug Rehabilitation lost one of the biggest feeder lines into their programs.... David Lee and Intervention Services and Technologies

This is a major strike against Narconon and will set the whole industry abuzz, including Narconon staffers
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2013, 23:18 »


 
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline who me?

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2013, 23:25 »
Wow, just wow! C{{O}}

Thanks for posting your story and congrats on your time sober...quite an accomplishment. You should be proud of yourself for over coming something as tough as addiction.

It is great to see more and more people work their way to real freedom. Stories such as yours are so important to help those of us who have not had the experience, understand the mind-set that leads a person to stay with NN and to finally leave. Also, for those at NN who have doubts, your story and the stories of others will help them realize they are not some singular failure and that the doubts stem from real problems at NN.

Hopefully your journey will be filled with people that you assist in finding real help.

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2013, 09:38 »
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline SocialTransparency

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2013, 10:44 »
 David,once again thank you for the in depth open letter you wrote. I do have some questions though. As you founded IS&T and have many years within the rehab referral industry under your belt how do you as the business owner vet that which you refer? Meaning do you have a process in place now that vets each of these companies for whatever services they provide?

 I guess what I am asking runs along the lines of what standards do you now go by that avoids some of the past issues that arose from your companies relationship with NarCONon or any other addiction rehabilitation entity?

 Another question,how does the monetary reward given for each referral IS&T made to a NarCONon facility compare to the rest of the industry?

 Thanks

Offline ist5551

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2013, 12:42 »
Sure, I'll try to answer it the best I can.

In the beginning, all we knew was Narconon and their referral payment process.  I've learned since that marketing agreements are actually pretty common in the industry and not unique to Narconon.  However, we here really stopping "liking" referring to Narconon, initially for business reasons.  Referring to Narconon had about a 50% chance of someone encountering black PR and then not going.  So it was becoming more and more risky to refer to them.  However, the die-hard Narconon-only and Scientologists generally will only refer to Narconon.  There used to be a lot of independent referral agents working for Narconon with their own sites.  The cost of internet has changed a lot of it. It's pretty hard to create a site and generate leads.  The majority of "independent" agents out there now are actually just answering phones for a fake referral site ran and operated by Narconon. 

Where does Narconon compare?

Generally they offer a standard 10% fee.  A lot of people disagree with marketing agreements.  I do also if you don't give multiple options.  How is a referral fee "justified"?  Well, I'll explain why they exist.  The internet.  Essentially for most standard treatment facilities, it "costs" them anywhere from $20-$50 per call.  And generally it takes anywhere from 50 to 100 calls to close a client.  Which means that, at the low end, it costs that treatment center a minimum of $1000-$5000 just in marketing alone.  A $3000 referral fee fits in right about at the amount they are paying anyways. My biggest issue with Narconon in terms of referrals is that they create "fake" referral sites, only refer to themselves, change the names of their agencies and even staff.  It got so strange over here when we would get an intervention lead from let's say "Joe from Narconon".  He would say "I talked with the family, but I was on the referral line and said my name was Bob.  I've referred it to Jill at Narconon (at the desk next to his).  The family hasn't committed to Narconon, so make sure that they don't know I'm Joe and that I'm really Bob.  Please make sure this family wants Narconon...but don't mention the word Narconon so they don't go on the internet."  What an absolute nightmare and ethical mess.

However in regards to referrals on our end, as an intervention company we had to change the way we did things.  Essentially, in order to become board registered you can not, as an interventionist, accept payment from a treatment center for referring an intervention client.  Which makes sense because you are entering into a sacred trust with a family.  To take advantage of that trust and gain financial reward for pushing their loved one into a treatment center you get "paid" to work for creates a pretty big problem.  So, we can no longer (and I agree) accept payments from a treatment center on any intervention that we do. 

However, we do also have a referral company, Sober Solutions.  We try to keep the lines pretty separate, and if a referral ends up being an intervention we can't then accept a referral fee.  A true referral company and information resource, should try and give multiple options.  Most narconon independent or "fake" referral sites only refer to one option...Narconon. 

In terms of vetting the treatment centers, we now email out a list of about 100 questions and that is just the first step.  This includes such things as "how many clinicians on staff?", "dual diagnosis", "psychiatrists", etc.  This is usually followed by a tour of the facility.  Generally most legitimate treatment facilities are willing to fly us out on their cost and tour, meet their clinicians, go over their program.  It takes about 3 months before we consider referring.

How do we avoid treatment centers with a Narconon style or lack of integrity?  Word of mouth goes pretty far and many treatment centers have been around for years.  We actually have been fortunate to have some of the leading intervention people and companies in the 12-step world reach out to us and help us to get out of Narconon.  The were pretty blunt about our relationships with Narconon and how they felt about it.  They really did help us to reevaluate how we do business and understand that we could ultimately raise the bar in our standards and practices.  Before then, I was an arrogant Narconon grad who assumed I knew more than everyone about interventions.  I'm very grateful to have the ability to actually listen to the advice of others who are more knowledgeable than I.  The 12-step or clinical world does a much better job of policing it's own than Narconon ever really did.  When we entered their world, they showed up.

Narconon is a unique entity and I hope to explain why.  Generally speaking there are different levels of treatment.  Here's some basics:

1) Sober Living house: No rules other than basic sobriety requirements.  No program or counseling.  Usually managed by someone with a few years sober minimum.  $100-$150/wk
2) Halfway House:  Same as above, except they may have a limited amount of actual program and recovery structure attached to it.  This is a social model setting, in other words the staff is usually former clients who have, usually, a minimum of 6 months to a year sober who then work there.  Clients can work, have freedom, etc.  No true counselors.  A basic level of training for staff on how to facilitate the program and treat the clients.  $100-$150/wk
3) Recovery Home:  A much more structured Halfway house.  Usually clients are "locked in" with the exception of day trips or outside AA meetings.  The staff here might have one or two certified counselors, but you will probably not find any clinicians.  Minimum sobriety requirements are generally 2 years.  If state funded, could be a free program, however if private, anywhere from $2000-$4000/month.
4) Florida Model Treatment Center:  Essentially a combination of a halfway-house/recovery home where the clients live one place but then are transported to an outside Outpatient program where they attend counseling by clinicians.  3 years minimum sobriety for staff.  $8000-$30000/month
5) Licensed residential treatment center:  Inpatient setting.  An assessment must be done to determine the level of care.  Clinicians and therapists on staff.  5 years minimum sobriety requirements for staff: $15000-$30000
6) Dual Diagnosis capable center:  Same as 5) but usually has a higher level of care, psychiatrists on staff.  Fully qualified to handle mental illness and substance abuse. $30000-$60000/month.  Average sobriety time is probably 8-30 years for staff.

Granted there are many variations in the above, but I just am going to try to make a point.  If we only look at Sobriety Requirements then where, in my list above does Narconon fall in terms of staff?   Barely at the same level of a halfway house, if that.  Interesting.  Narconon staff members have minimal to no sobriety requirements and are often hired fresh off the program (2 months to 6 months sober), or fresh off a retread (2 weeks to 2 months sober). Narconon staff members are generally not trained in any standard clinical practices, but instead are taught things like the "withdraw specialist hat", "Course Supervisor Hat" or the "Sauna IC hat".  In other words, in my opinion, based upon the above criteria for staffing, Narconon is closer in style to a recovery home or halfway house than to the more clinical programs.  You find much of the same chaos and drama at some halfway houses as you do at a Narconon...but narconon brings on greater risk to the client in assuming a higher level of care than a halfway house.  In addition, the minimum sobriety standards don't exist at Narconon, but do at other programs.  However, notice the price of Narconon.  It is comparable to a full treatment center and often being promoted as "the equivalent in standards to a high end program...just cheaper and longer".  I completely disagree with this assessment.  Granted they would argue that they are long-term vs. 28 days.  But that's like comparing a 28 day stay at Hazelden to a six month stay in a halfway house and saying the halfway house is a better and more qualified option because of it's length and price.  In addition, the assessments that we did at Narconon didn't, to me, really determine the program the client would receive.  In other words, if a client had major physical and sexual abuse in their history...they were given the same "program" as someone who wasn't.  If a client had an eating disorder...same program.  Alcoholic vs Heroin addict?  Same program.  I have learned that in the world of addiction and recovery there are many disorders, trauma, addictions, etc. that each must be dealt with uniquely.  This doesn't seem to occur at Narconon.  If you throw in underlying psychiatric issues, which Narconon doesn't seem to accept like the rest of the clinical world...oh boy.  At most legitimate facilities, an assessment of needs is done on each client in terms of a standard Biopsychosocial evaluation.  This determines if there are external factors, unique substance abuse issues, medical issues, social factors, psychiatric factors...each of which must be addressed differently as the client progresses.  In my experience, none of this happens at a Narconon.

Part of the problem with Narconon, in my opinion, setting aside the lack of clinical training in counseling or other things is the low sobriety that exists at the staff level.  There is a reason why most legitimate centers have minimum sobriety requirements.  In other words, when you are newly sober you are still emotionally underdeveloped, you don't tend to take accountability, you have a low responsibility level, you shift the blame, are reactive and impulsive still, you aren't as honest as you could be, and you have high relapse potential.  Instead of doing what's right today so you have a great life a year from now, you still tend to do what "feels good" today regardless of the outcomes.  Imagine a culture where most staff were at this level.  What would happen?  Look at Narconon and their problems.  Rampant drug use, sex with clients, deaths of clients.  Most of these problems, I believe, are due to a combination of lack of professional and clinical training coupled with minimal sobriety.  At Narconon we were really taught that psychiatry, psychology, and traditional programs may occasionally do some good but were inherently wrong.  I honestly believed, with about 2 weeks sober and a "basic staff hat" training under my belt that I was more qualified than anyone with a doctorate in psychology.  You will find this attitude almost exclusively and at any Narconon.  Imagine the arrogance we had.

Well, hopefully I've answered some of your questions.  I'll try to be as open as I can about anything.  I realize that I am in a unique position.  I've probably interacted with, had relationships with and visited with almost every Narconon referral source, Reg, FSM and Narconon in North America.  Although not an expert, I may be able to shed light on some things, should you ask.

I have to be pretty careful about naming specific individuals and such.  I'm not really prepared for any onslaught of lawsuits.  We'll see how the weeks and months turn out though. 

And to everyone here and who has reached out to me privately, I want to personally express my overwhelming gratitude on the level of support that I've gotten.  I was pretty nervous about stepping out, but felt I had to.  It's pretty nice to be on this side.



Offline SocialTransparency

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2013, 14:35 »
 Thanks for the explanations DL. I noticed you had mentioned multiple times about depending on the level or type of care the employee had to meet a certain criteria (length of sobriety) in order to work within a specific area of the industry we are discussing. How does the industry police the employee when the length of sobriety is a factor in their employ? Is there drug testing or does the industry rely on the honesty of the individual?

 Does NarCONon test its employees for drugs or alcohol use in any meaningful fashion? I mean is there an industry standard by which these tests are given at any given time or would it just be a random thing.

Offline Intelligence

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 14:59 »
Hi David. I have been investigating Narconon Fake referral and other websites that referred to Narconon, for nearly two years now. I had a meeting with SQ Intelligence Police, the Canada Competition Bureau, 3 Senators in 3 countries, and a meeting with the FBI in Oklahoma, as well as other authorities I can not mention yet.

I also, was at Narconon Trois-Rivieres as a patient and Registrar, Graduate Officer and Course Supervisor. I was only a Reg for a short period of time because I refused to participate in their "Conspiracy to Commit Fraud" operations.

I'm very pleased to see that you are speaking out and have stopped referring to Narconon and their Clones. BRAVO!!! I'm sure you know some of the same Fake Referral owners that I do, but I won't mention names on this open Forum. A while back, three prominent Fake Referral websites shut down in Canada. One generic, one depicting Toronto, and another depicting Fort McMurry. These sites were backed by one of the richest assetts in North America (enough said). Although these sites are still up (because 5 years were paid in advance), the Toll free has been down for quite some time. I view the owner of these sites as my Friend and we chat often. The owner, as you did, saw the light of deception etc, and has moved onto other business ventures that are legit.

QUESTION??? A couple of these past Narconon referral website AND intervention site owners, are aware of ongoing investigations and they are willing to testify. Apparently, this testimony should give them immunity from prosecution. Are YOU willing to gives States evidence? Are YOU willing to be interviewed by mainstream Media? Would YOU be willing to talk to me on the phone for an interview for an article in the Examiner and Canada News Wire?

David, the far reaching ramifications of you speaking out now, "MAY" cause you some untold grief from Scientology's OSA - - are you prepared for this?

All this ^^^ said; once again, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING OUT!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


David Edgar Love

.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 15:06 by Intelligence »
An Ol' Irish Quote:
“You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, 'Why not?'”

Offline SocialTransparency

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2013, 16:06 »
Hi David. I have been investigating Narconon Fake referral and other websites that referred to Narconon, for nearly two years now. I had a meeting with SQ Intelligence Police, the Canada Competition Bureau, 3 Senators in 3 countries, and a meeting with the FBI in Oklahoma, as well as other authorities I can not mention yet.

I also, was at Narconon Trois-Rivieres as a patient and Registrar, Graduate Officer and Course Supervisor. I was only a Reg for a short period of time because I refused to participate in their "Conspiracy to Commit Fraud" operations.

I'm very pleased to see that you are speaking out and have stopped referring to Narconon and their Clones. BRAVO!!! I'm sure you know some of the same Fake Referral owners that I do, but I won't mention names on this open Forum. A while back, three prominent Fake Referral websites shut down in Canada. One generic, one depicting Toronto, and another depicting Fort McMurry. These sites were backed by one of the richest assetts in North America (enough said). Although these sites are still up (because 5 years were paid in advance), the Toll free has been down for quite some time. I view the owner of these sites as my Friend and we chat often. The owner, as you did, saw the light of deception etc, and has moved onto other business ventures that are legit.

QUESTION??? A couple of these past Narconon referral website AND intervention site owners, are aware of ongoing investigations and they are willing to testify. Apparently, this testimony should give them immunity from prosecution. Are YOU willing to gives States evidence? Are YOU willing to be interviewed by mainstream Media? Would YOU be willing to talk to me on the phone for an interview for an article in the Examiner and Canada News Wire?

David, the far reaching ramifications of you speaking out now, "MAY" cause you some untold grief from Scientology's OSA - - are you prepared for this?

All this ^^^ said; once again, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING OUT!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


David Edgar Love

.

 (:E( :{^0 :{^0 :{^0 :{^0 (:E)

Offline Intelligence

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 16:15 »
Also David, I'm happy that you are now clean and living a happy life. I've noticed that many who went through Narconon, are now clean from attending AA & NA groups.

You have my admiration for all you've endured and now moving forward with your life.

.
An Ol' Irish Quote:
“You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, 'Why not?'”