Author Topic: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies  (Read 16795 times)

Offline ist5551

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 17:17 »
To SocialTransparency, I've put my answer here.  To Intelligence, I sent you an email.

There are no industry standards in terms of drug testing within the treatment field that I am aware of.  However, the better the facility, the more they focus on sobriety and stability amongst staff.

But, in order to answer your question more fully, I think it’s important to understand the two entirely different cultures that exist in traditional treatment programs vs Narconon.  I wish to state that the following is just my opinions and not necessarily 100% written in stone in regards to every center.

In a traditional rehab program, success is primarily measured in terms of days, weeks or years of abstinence.  Helping others, making amends, responsibility, growth (spiritual and otherwise) and other things are also important, but the primary focus and primary purpose is to stay sober.  That’s why the clients arrived…to get sober and stay sober.   Within a traditional setting rehab not all employees are recovering or ex-addicts.  But of those who are, they are generally active in recovery circles where their clean time and sobriety dates are public knowledge.  In other words, in my support groups in my community everyone knows my sobriety time and I know, to some degree, what everyone else’s is.  It’s not necessarily a pecking order, but generally speaking someone with 90 days clean isn’t considered as stable, responsible or together as someone with 10 years.   We congratulate each other on milestones.   It is not uncommon to ask, within minutes of meeting someone, how much clean time they have.  It gives us an idea of where they are at in life and program.  Granted there are those with multiple years who are unethical in their lives, but the attitude is that, without sobriety, then what the heck are we doing here.  In other words, people generally go to rehab to get and stay sober.  Do people lie about their sobriety?   Of course.  But when you are in a tight knit group it almost always comes out.  If I had the ability to sneak a drink or two without consequence, I would have never needed rehab in the first place.  Those that sneak, usually are found out pretty quickly.  What happens in the dark, always comes out in the light.  In terms of employees, it’s generally on the honor system, coupled with a knowledge of them in their personal recovery programs.  In addition, traditional programs usually have continual and random drug screening.    This isn’t policy nationwide, but does exist in many programs primarily to protect the clients and the organization.  There seems to be a greater desire within traditional programs to protect clients from any staff instability, dual relationships, etc.

In my viewpoint, success is looked at much differently at Narconon than elsewhere.  All the times I went to Narconon, clean time as a statistic was not necessarily respected or spoken of. Occasionally I asked various Narconon staff/grads/members “how much clean time do you have?”  Most didn’t answer, felt I was rude, or told me to “forget about the old AA philosophy”.  During their program many clients or students would say “20 days sober for me”, but again this wasn’t something I ever felt was congratulated within a Narconon.  Strange.   When they became staff they stopped quoting their clean time, eventually.

So if clean time isn’t necessarily respected than what is? 

Two things that I’ve noticed.  How far up the bridge you were (an OT-4 is generally considered “higher” than someone just clear)….and Stats.  Which stat?  Whatever stat you focused on as a staff member.  If you were a reg (salesperson) your stat was “people admitted to Narconon” per week.  If you were a course supervisor it was “people that completed book1, book2, etc” this week.  Btw, I’m probably butchering these exact stats.  In every Narconon there is an actual phrase for each post on these stats.  It’s something like “Students who have completed the Sauna” or something like that.  I don’t remember what they are. 

And ironically, these stats are generally viewed upon as most important, in my opinion.  And if your stats fell, you were looked upon and made to do “conditions” workups.    Actually you were always doing conditions.  But here is the ironic thing.  If you were a salesperson and did 5 “starts” this week, the only way to be considered in a good or “normal” condition is if you were to do one more the next week.  In other words, 6.  And then you had to do 7, then 8, then 9 per week, etc.  The minute you didn’t increase…if you did the same number this week as last week, you were considered in “emergency”.  More than a couple behind…considered in ”Danger”.  Push, push, push.

So, what does all this have to do with anything?  In my experience, if your stats were good and you were “slipping” in your sobriety, it usually seemed to either be ignored or, if found out, you were given a mild ethics condition.  It seemed to be a known thing in Narconon that if your stats were up than the ethics are mild.  In other words, you didn’t really get punished for out-ethics behaviors at all as long as you were producing…behaviors which could include drinking, acting out, etc.   The only time I saw drug test being pushed was if stats were down on an individual.  In some cases, however, if it turned out that a large majority of students were mysteriously intoxicated, drug tests at the student and staff level might happen to nip it in the bud.  However, I assume that what I witnessed was if a staff member was in an ok stat condition, they were usually pulled off post for a couple weeks up to a month to do their conditions and then put back on post.  Which means, at many times during your program, the clients or students could even have more sobriety time than the staff member who was “teaching” them about sobriety.  All in all, it was strange because, on occasion we would receive “Staff success stories” published and released by a particular Narconon.  One in particular was an individual boasting of 10 years drug and alcohol free.  Which was really strange because the year before I was sitting across from him during his retread as he just came off a year long bender. 

In addition, every student at Narconon, prior to completing the program, finishes what is referred to as Book 8, the Way to Happiness.  In this book it says “Do not take alcohol to excess” and “a little liquor goes a long way”.  I have witnessed continual drinking amongst Narconon staff members where the justification was always Book 8.  “It says right here that we can drink, just not to excess!”
In my first program in Canada, almost every graduate celebrated by going to the local bar, many with staff trainees.

I have never experienced a traditional program where it was stated anywhere that an alcoholic or addict could drink, as long as they didn’t do it to excess.  As an interventionist I had many family member call me after their client completed Narconon and celebrated by drinking, quoting that book and stating that staff members told them they could…that they were “only addicts” and not alcoholic.

I don’t want to leave off by saying to no one at Narconon was committed to sobriety.  Many were, but there was an underlying culture that it was not as important as your success.  And success was usually different than just mere sobriety.  As a motivational group, it might have been fine. 

Offline Intelligence

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 17:25 »
Quote
In addition, every student at Narconon, prior to completing the program, finishes what is referred to as Book 8, the Way to Happiness.  In this book it says “Do not take alcohol to excess” and “a little liquor goes a long way”.  I have witnessed continual drinking amongst Narconon staff members where the justification was always Book 8.  “It says right here that we can drink, just not to excess!” In my first program in Canada, almost every graduate celebrated by going to the local bar, many with staff trainees.

I have never experienced a traditional program where it was stated anywhere that an alcoholic or addict could drink, as long as they didn’t do it to excess.  As an interventionist I had many family member call me after their client completed Narconon and celebrated by drinking, quoting that book and stating that staff members told them they could…that they were “only addicts” and not alcoholic.

This ^^^ is exactly what I witnessed at NN TR and it was a recipe for horrific relapse - - very heart-breaking indeed.

I sent you a PM with my new email address.

.
An Ol' Irish Quote:
“You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, 'Why not?'”

Offline BMF

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2013, 17:55 »
The Way to Happiness does not state "a little liquor goes a long way".  There is a thread or two on this subject as well.  I tried several times to get this precept taken out of the program but "altering the tech is a high crime".

I guess its okay to take the e-meter out of Narconon, the one device they claim verifies case state and EP's, but you cant take out a destructive piece of info that is a sure shot to relapse.
"But now," says the Once-ler, "Now that you're here,
the word of the Lorax seems perfectly clear.
UNLESS someone like you,
cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. Its not!"   - Dr. Seuss

Offline ist5551

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 18:26 »
I stand corrected.  I think I was quoting from the Scientology Way to Happiness book.  The narconon way to happiness doesn't seem to have that but does have the "be temperate do not drink alcohol to excess" quote. 

It is still a strange thing to have in a rehab as a quote in the final book.

Thanks


Offline BMF

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2013, 20:46 »
I stand corrected.  I think I was quoting from the Scientology Way to Happiness book.  The narconon way to happiness doesn't seem to have that but does have the "be temperate do not drink alcohol to excess" quote. 

It is still a strange thing to have in a rehab as a quote in the final book.

Thanks

Strange?  It's a built in revenue stream.  I say planned as the people on the ground floor have screamed to the top to have it taken out.  ABLE says no though.
"But now," says the Once-ler, "Now that you're here,
the word of the Lorax seems perfectly clear.
UNLESS someone like you,
cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. Its not!"   - Dr. Seuss

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2013, 21:46 »
I stand corrected.  I think I was quoting from the Scientology Way to Happiness book.  The narconon way to happiness doesn't seem to have that but does have the "be temperate do not drink alcohol to excess" quote. 

It is still a strange thing to have in a rehab as a quote in the final book.

Thanks

Strange?  It's a built in revenue stream.  I say planned as the people on the ground floor have screamed to the top to have it taken out.  ABLE says no though.

I agree. The WTH was not around until the 80's and Narconon existed before that not using that 'be temperate' concept
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline Intelligence

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2013, 21:54 »
Here is a "resized" page from NN TR Way To Happiness Book.

An Ol' Irish Quote:
“You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, 'Why not?'”

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2013, 22:29 »
Here is a "resized" page from NN TR Way To Happiness Book.



Yes, that is part of the precept chapter as I recall it.



I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2013, 21:37 »
To SocialTransparency, I've put my answer here.  To Intelligence, I sent you an email.

There are no industry standards in terms of drug testing within the treatment field that I am aware of.  However, the better the facility, the more they focus on sobriety and stability amongst staff.

But, in order to answer your question more fully, I think it’s important to understand the two entirely different cultures that exist in traditional treatment programs vs Narconon.  I wish to state that the following is just my opinions and not necessarily 100% written in stone in regards to every center.

In a traditional rehab program, success is primarily measured in terms of days, weeks or years of abstinence.  Helping others, making amends, responsibility, growth (spiritual and otherwise) and other things are also important, but the primary focus and primary purpose is to stay sober.  That’s why the clients arrived…to get sober and stay sober.   Within a traditional setting rehab not all employees are recovering or ex-addicts.  But of those who are, they are generally active in recovery circles where their clean time and sobriety dates are public knowledge.  In other words, in my support groups in my community everyone knows my sobriety time and I know, to some degree, what everyone else’s is.  It’s not necessarily a pecking order, but generally speaking someone with 90 days clean isn’t considered as stable, responsible or together as someone with 10 years.   We congratulate each other on milestones.   It is not uncommon to ask, within minutes of meeting someone, how much clean time they have.  It gives us an idea of where they are at in life and program.  Granted there are those with multiple years who are unethical in their lives, but the attitude is that, without sobriety, then what the heck are we doing here.  In other words, people generally go to rehab to get and stay sober.  Do people lie about their sobriety?   Of course.  But when you are in a tight knit group it almost always comes out.  If I had the ability to sneak a drink or two without consequence, I would have never needed rehab in the first place.  Those that sneak, usually are found out pretty quickly.  What happens in the dark, always comes out in the light.  In terms of employees, it’s generally on the honor system, coupled with a knowledge of them in their personal recovery programs.  In addition, traditional programs usually have continual and random drug screening.    This isn’t policy nationwide, but does exist in many programs primarily to protect the clients and the organization.  There seems to be a greater desire within traditional programs to protect clients from any staff instability, dual relationships, etc.

In my viewpoint, success is looked at much differently at Narconon than elsewhere.  All the times I went to Narconon, clean time as a statistic was not necessarily respected or spoken of. Occasionally I asked various Narconon staff/grads/members “how much clean time do you have?”  Most didn’t answer, felt I was rude, or told me to “forget about the old AA philosophy”.  During their program many clients or students would say “20 days sober for me”, but again this wasn’t something I ever felt was congratulated within a Narconon.  Strange.   When they became staff they stopped quoting their clean time, eventually.

So if clean time isn’t necessarily respected than what is? 

Two things that I’ve noticed.  How far up the bridge you were (an OT-4 is generally considered “higher” than someone just clear)….and Stats.  Which stat?  Whatever stat you focused on as a staff member.  If you were a reg (salesperson) your stat was “people admitted to Narconon” per week.  If you were a course supervisor it was “people that completed book1, book2, etc” this week.  Btw, I’m probably butchering these exact stats.  In every Narconon there is an actual phrase for each post on these stats.  It’s something like “Students who have completed the Sauna” or something like that.  I don’t remember what they are. 

And ironically, these stats are generally viewed upon as most important, in my opinion.  And if your stats fell, you were looked upon and made to do “conditions” workups.    Actually you were always doing conditions.  But here is the ironic thing.  If you were a salesperson and did 5 “starts” this week, the only way to be considered in a good or “normal” condition is if you were to do one more the next week.  In other words, 6.  And then you had to do 7, then 8, then 9 per week, etc.  The minute you didn’t increase…if you did the same number this week as last week, you were considered in “emergency”.  More than a couple behind…considered in ”Danger”.  Push, push, push.

So, what does all this have to do with anything?  In my experience, if your stats were good and you were “slipping” in your sobriety, it usually seemed to either be ignored or, if found out, you were given a mild ethics condition.  It seemed to be a known thing in Narconon that if your stats were up than the ethics are mild.  In other words, you didn’t really get punished for out-ethics behaviors at all as long as you were producing…behaviors which could include drinking, acting out, etc.   The only time I saw drug test being pushed was if stats were down on an individual.  In some cases, however, if it turned out that a large majority of students were mysteriously intoxicated, drug tests at the student and staff level might happen to nip it in the bud.  However, I assume that what I witnessed was if a staff member was in an ok stat condition, they were usually pulled off post for a couple weeks up to a month to do their conditions and then put back on post.  Which means, at many times during your program, the clients or students could even have more sobriety time than the staff member who was “teaching” them about sobriety.  All in all, it was strange because, on occasion we would receive “Staff success stories” published and released by a particular Narconon.  One in particular was an individual boasting of 10 years drug and alcohol free.  Which was really strange because the year before I was sitting across from him during his retread as he just came off a year long bender. 

In addition, every student at Narconon, prior to completing the program, finishes what is referred to as Book 8, the Way to Happiness.  In this book it says “Do not take alcohol to excess” and “a little liquor goes a long way”.  I have witnessed continual drinking amongst Narconon staff members where the justification was always Book 8.  “It says right here that we can drink, just not to excess!”
In my first program in Canada, almost every graduate celebrated by going to the local bar, many with staff trainees.

I have never experienced a traditional program where it was stated anywhere that an alcoholic or addict could drink, as long as they didn’t do it to excess.  As an interventionist I had many family member call me after their client completed Narconon and celebrated by drinking, quoting that book and stating that staff members told them they could…that they were “only addicts” and not alcoholic.

I don’t want to leave off by saying to no one at Narconon was committed to sobriety.  Many were, but there was an underlying culture that it was not as important as your success.  And success was usually different than just mere sobriety.  As a motivational group, it might have been fine.

Thanks. It really helps to get the distinctions stated on the internet!
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline snippy

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2013, 05:54 »
Agreed - your posts are very, very helpful and thought provoking, too.

Offline SocialTransparency

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Offline ist5551

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2013, 14:09 »
Thanks.  I do want to state that I've been receiving messages from former and current Narconon staff members who have (with the exception of one) all said my original post stated almost exactly what they went through in terms of feelings and experiences.

Many people (ex-narconon) who we hired over the years came over because they wanted out of Narconon but didn't have many options.  They were sick of all the deception and lies and thought we were a way to continue working without fully being at a Narconon.  In the past, we have received calls and sometimes hired people who had former Narconon positions from Executive Directors all the way down.  They generally all said the same thing about the deception.  But they found themselves in a bit of a spot.  When you work for Narconon for many years you quickly discover that your resume doesn't actually mean much in the traditional recovery field.  You can't "become" a counselor at a normal facility even if you worked at Narconon for years.  You essentially have to start over.  Go back to school and start there.  A frustrating position for anyone who has worked for Narconon for years.  Narconon isn't viewed upon as legitimate or favorable amongst most traditional recovery facilities,and in many cases having it on your resume is a sure way not to get hired.  At conferences, if Narconon get's brought up, they are usually referred to as "the liars" and scam artists.   

I believe that many current Narconon staff members find themselves stuck.  You have a job at a Narconon working 6-7 days a week, often for 80 hours per week.  You're making a whopping $300/wk ($50 a week when I was a trainee) and your room and board is paid for because you live at the facility.  You get sick of the deception and problems but can't get out.  And if you dare question anything...

I really hope that, in the posts I write, I am able to reach out to those who are stuck.  To help them to understand that you can get out and have a great life.  If their purpose is to help someone, there are many ways to do so outside of Narconon.  And most everyone who has broken free and wants to continue working in the field and begins working at a traditional facility is completely amazed at the professionalism that they see and never knew existed.

There are a small number of Narconon employees that I think probably really believe in everything and feel that although there is deception,it is for the greatest good.  That the lies are justified, etc.  But the majority who are still there, I believe feel and have felt the way that I do and have.  If this is you, please reach out.  How is it that so many of us feel the same way?  I will keep our conversations in confidence unless you state otherwise.  It is the same respect that I have found here among many of the members.   

Again, I wish to thank everyone who has been supportive. And again, if there are any questions about my experiences and opinions, I will do the best I can to give the answers that I can.



Offline SocialTransparency

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2013, 14:54 »
Thanks.  I do want to state that I've been receiving messages from former and current Narconon staff members who have (with the exception of one) all said my original post stated almost exactly what they went through in terms of feelings and experiences.

Many people (ex-narconon) who we hired over the years came over because they wanted out of Narconon but didn't have many options.  They were sick of all the deception and lies and thought we were a way to continue working without fully being at a Narconon.  In the past, we have received calls and sometimes hired people who had former Narconon positions from Executive Directors all the way down.  They generally all said the same thing about the deception.  But they found themselves in a bit of a spot.  When you work for Narconon for many years you quickly discover that your resume doesn't actually mean much in the traditional recovery field.  You can't "become" a counselor at a normal facility even if you worked at Narconon for years.  You essentially have to start over.  Go back to school and start there.  A frustrating position for anyone who has worked for Narconon for years.  Narconon isn't viewed upon as legitimate or favorable amongst most traditional recovery facilities,and in many cases having it on your resume is a sure way not to get hired.  At conferences, if Narconon get's brought up, they are usually referred to as "the liars" and scam artists.   

I believe that many current Narconon staff members find themselves stuck.  You have a job at a Narconon working 6-7 days a week, often for 80 hours per week.  You're making a whopping $300/wk ($50 a week when I was a trainee) and your room and board is paid for because you live at the facility.  You get sick of the deception and problems but can't get out.  And if you dare question anything...

I really hope that, in the posts I write, I am able to reach out to those who are stuck.  To help them to understand that you can get out and have a great life.  If their purpose is to help someone, there are many ways to do so outside of Narconon.  And most everyone who has broken free and wants to continue working in the field and begins working at a traditional facility is completely amazed at the professionalism that they see and never knew existed.

There are a small number of Narconon employees that I think probably really believe in everything and feel that although there is deception,it is for the greatest good.  That the lies are justified, etc.  But the majority who are still there, I believe feel and have felt the way that I do and have.  If this is you, please reach out.  How is it that so many of us feel the same way?  I will keep our conversations in confidence unless you state otherwise.  It is the same respect that I have found here among many of the members.   

Again, I wish to thank everyone who has been supportive. And again, if there are any questions about my experiences and opinions, I will do the best I can to give the answers that I can.

 I cordially invite any former or current narconon staff member or student to come here and add to the discussion.

Offline BMF

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2013, 15:09 »
Here's a test for current NN staff to see where your executives motives lie.

As you know you are allowed BY POLICY to get 12.5 hours of study time/week (if you arent allowed to then the motive of slavery is clear and you can just go ahead and look for a new job).

If you are wanting to make a career in the rehabilitation field, put in a CSW to take classes at your local community college to get the necessary training to become certified through the state for addiction counseling.  On the information section be sure to put down the courses you will need (typically you are required to take an intro psych class).

On the solution section just state that you will pay for the courses and your post will be covered as it normally is on your PE time.

Almost certainly you will be denied.

Another thing to do to see if the org is operating in the correct condition of exchange with you is add up the number of hours you work in a week.  Take your gross for the week and divide by the number of hours.  This will give you a rough estimate of how much you make/hour.

Another thing to do is look at the executives to see if they are following the most basic of principles in Bk 8.  Specifically "Take Care of Yourself"  Do they smoke constantly, eat terrible diets, dont exercise or take care of their personal hygeine? 

What about policy?  Do they follow the basic staff hat or do they bend the rules to fit their needs?
"But now," says the Once-ler, "Now that you're here,
the word of the Lorax seems perfectly clear.
UNLESS someone like you,
cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. Its not!"   - Dr. Seuss

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2013, 16:06 »
Thanks.  I do want to state that I've been receiving messages from former and current Narconon staff members who have (with the exception of one) all said my original post stated almost exactly what they went through in terms of feelings and experiences.

Many people (ex-narconon) who we hired over the years came over because they wanted out of Narconon but didn't have many options.  They were sick of all the deception and lies and thought we were a way to continue working without fully being at a Narconon.  In the past, we have received calls and sometimes hired people who had former Narconon positions from Executive Directors all the way down.  They generally all said the same thing about the deception.  But they found themselves in a bit of a spot.  When you work for Narconon for many years you quickly discover that your resume doesn't actually mean much in the traditional recovery field.  You can't "become" a counselor at a normal facility even if you worked at Narconon for years.  You essentially have to start over.  Go back to school and start there.  A frustrating position for anyone who has worked for Narconon for years.  Narconon isn't viewed upon as legitimate or favorable amongst most traditional recovery facilities,and in many cases having it on your resume is a sure way not to get hired.  At conferences, if Narconon get's brought up, they are usually referred to as "the liars" and scam artists.   

I believe that many current Narconon staff members find themselves stuck.  You have a job at a Narconon working 6-7 days a week, often for 80 hours per week.  You're making a whopping $300/wk ($50 a week when I was a trainee) and your room and board is paid for because you live at the facility.  You get sick of the deception and problems but can't get out.  And if you dare question anything...

I really hope that, in the posts I write, I am able to reach out to those who are stuck.  To help them to understand that you can get out and have a great life.  If their purpose is to help someone, there are many ways to do so outside of Narconon.  And most everyone who has broken free and wants to continue working in the field and begins working at a traditional facility is completely amazed at the professionalism that they see and never knew existed.

There are a small number of Narconon employees that I think probably really believe in everything and feel that although there is deception,it is for the greatest good.  That the lies are justified, etc.  But the majority who are still there, I believe feel and have felt the way that I do and have.  If this is you, please reach out.  How is it that so many of us feel the same way?  I will keep our conversations in confidence unless you state otherwise.  It is the same respect that I have found here among many of the members.   

Again, I wish to thank everyone who has been supportive. And again, if there are any questions about my experiences and opinions, I will do the best I can to give the answers that I can.

Thank you, David. Much appreciated.
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline mefree

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2013, 16:57 »
Here's a test for current NN staff to see where your executives motives lie.

As you know you are allowed BY POLICY to get 12.5 hours of study time/week (if you arent allowed to then the motive of slavery is clear and you can just go ahead and look for a new job).

If you are wanting to make a career in the rehabilitation field, put in a CSW to take classes at your local community college to get the necessary training to become certified through the state for addiction counseling.  On the information section be sure to put down the courses you will need (typically you are required to take an intro psych class).

On the solution section just state that you will pay for the courses and your post will be covered as it normally is on your PE time.

Almost certainly you will be denied.

Another thing to do to see if the org is operating in the correct condition of exchange with you is add up the number of hours you work in a week.  Take your gross for the week and divide by the number of hours.  This will give you a rough estimate of how much you make/hour.

Another thing to do is look at the executives to see if they are following the most basic of principles in Bk 8.  Specifically "Take Care of Yourself"  Do they smoke constantly, eat terrible diets, dont exercise or take care of their personal hygeine? 

What about policy?  Do they follow the basic staff hat or do they bend the rules to fit their needs?

That's a good test, BMF. Love it!
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline ist5551

  • On the path to knowledge
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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2013, 12:03 »
I’d like to take the time to relate how it is that I became immersed in and often embraced what I now consider to be very cult-like thinking.  Understand that I wasn’t naïve, even at times I often questioned, but ultimately there were things within Narconon and Scientology that I was attracted to that kept me reaching further for that next “carrot”.  I never did get the carrot.

What I have observed in my own life and the 4 Narconons I had direct experience as a student, staff member, or retread client is that there were, in all of them primarily 4 types of people there:

1)   STUDENTS:  These were addicts who, in most cases, didn’t know that L.Ron Hubbard principles were taught until they arrived.  However, because they liked certain philosophies decided to stay.  More often than most people realize, clients who arrived often created problems if they were antagonistic towards Scientology.  If they weren’t convinced to stay, they were usually asked to leave.  I found it amusing that every time I arrived I was asked a series of questions which included asking if I or any of my family members worked for any intelligence gathering agency such as the CIA, FBI or NSA.  It made it seem that there were covert operations out there that wanted to infiltrate. In my mind this made Narconon strangely attractive.  Aside from the usual Narconon tech stuff, most students were not pushed towards anything further than that.  There seemed to be a mystique about Scientology, but they made it clear that was reserved for only “special” people.  People such as I became.  Because it was reserved, I was attracted.  I guess a part of my addiction has been being drawn to the forbidden.  Cocaine, Heroin, etc.  These all fall into the same realm.  Scientology was no different.  If you said “stay away”, I usually went forward instead.  Again, if a student was openly antagonistic about LRH or Scientology, or relayed anything they had found on a black PR website, they were generally asked to leave.  If however, like me, you were interested in the program, were a good student and didn’t sneak drugs in, showed up on time, weren’t sleeping with other clients, then you were offered a bit more. 

At every Narconon that I attended or worked at, I was always taken to a back room where they would pull an actual Scientology book (non-narconon) off the shelf, close the door and say to me “I’m not supposed to show you this, but read this part here”.  I was special and treated so.  I would read something about “thetans, beingness, cause” things like that.  The strangeness of it all was this idea that I was being shown tidbits of a greater truth.  I always felt honored and attracted.  I would return to my bunk, smug in knowing that I was different from my other students.  I was “high theta”, intelligent, maybe even better than.  I was chosen.  And with being chosen always came the offer to me, and other students like me.  “Would you like to work here and join us?”.  If that was possible, I and others like me did.  If it wasn’t the client was usually referred to a Scientology Org in their home area…off the record.

I had some problems with aspects of the program and tried to make my case.  For example, during the sauna portion it was told, and I read in the Narconon books, that for the most part all drugs fell into the same category.  If you took a small amount of it, it created a stimulant effect.  More, created a downer effect.  Even more, killed you.  There was no stimulant, depressant, psychoactive, hallucinogen, narcotic, barbiturate breakdown.  They just put everything into one lump.  They also said that radiation got stored in the body and a sauna could get rid of it.  I would argue about this to the staff and say “This isn’t true, I can show you a thousand scientific references for this being false”  They would either nod and say “I understand” or eventually it would be back into the back room where they’d pull down the secret tome of scientology. 

Later I was told that “all forms of sickness or injury” including addiction are related to a PTS condition (or something on the outside creating “suppression” on the being).  Again, I would argue “all forms?  Come on.  What about cancer, or someone falling down the stairs?”  “All forms” I would be told.  Again, the secret book.  At one Narconon I was told that the reason for my addiction was my mother.  At another, I was told it was my brother.  At another, I was told that I was PTS’d to myself.  That my thetan or soul was attached to other secretly suppressive “spirits” that were causing me problems.  I still have no idea what the heck that means.

I enjoyed doing the training routines.  We would try and “bullbait” someone who was asked to sit in a chair motionless.  We tried to “break their confront” and make them laugh or flinch.  It was like a fun game.  We were usually laughing and really enjoyed it.  Who could last the longest was the best.  The ashtray drill, which a lot of people ridicule, was eventually my favorite.  At first I didn’t understand it.  However, with many sit-downs and secret references written by LRH, I was slowly explained the truth.  That if I could practice putting my thoughts and intentions into an immobile ashtray…eventually I could gain the power to do that to a human being.  In other words…I could compel people with my thoughts and willpower alone.  Wrong thing to say to a drug addict like me.  Jedi mind tricks?  Compelling people with thoughts alone?  Awesome.  I’m in.  I spent several years trying this goal.  I never did achieve this carrot.  Man, did I try, though.

2)   STAFF TRAINEE:  At most Narconons, it seemed that there were almost the same number of trainees as staff, at times.  Which was strange to me.  If there was such a high success rate, where did they all go?  For an initial $50 a week I began training as a withdraw specialist, program support specialist, registrar (salesperson), course supervisor.  Training consisted of more of the same that was in Narconon, just at a higher level.   We also had freedom and oversight of our former students. 

There is a thing in traditional counseling that is referred to as “Dual relationships” and how they should be avoided at all costs.  I, as a result of Narconon, understand now why it is so important.  Dual relationships means that I can’t be your therapist and your friend.  I can’t be your therapist and date you.  I can’t be your therapist and take advantage of that relationship in any way.  Dual relationships means that it is often illegal in many states for a therapist in a rehab to date a client for a period of years during and after treatment.  It’s a sacred trust.  At Narconon, dual relationships occur all the time.  It is impossible to have a client instantly become a staff member without major problems occurring.  In many Narconons, I witnessed staff members “grooming” certain students to come on board as staff with the complete understanding that they would date them when they did.  If they did that in any traditional facility, many would go to jail.  Not so at Narconon.  Many Narconons are “off the grid” and located outside of a major metropolitan area.  There are islands unto themselves and your social life is limited as a staff member.  So students and trainees often “become” your social life. 

As a staff trainee much of my normal language began to be replaced with “Tech” terms.  In other words, a 2d is a relationship.  A job or person is a terminal.  Paperwork and people become “particles”.  People also became “cycles”,  sexual attraction became a “flow”, Soul becomes theta, sick became PTS’d.  My family would sometimes ask me “what the heck are you talking about?”

As a staff trainee I was usually introduced to more about Scientology.  I wasn’t forced, I was attracted to it initially.  A problem that I had was that Scientologists almost never considered anything that wasn’t written by L.Ron Hubbard to be an effective source.  In other words, anything I disputed they would ask “show me the source”.  If it wasn’t in a scientology book, it was basically dismissed.  What a strange and insulated world.  When I started doing Objectives in my courses (where you walk around viewing or touching things for hours or days on end) it was supposed to bring about a higher thought plane and give you an objective view of reality and your life.  I decided that since it was about a “higher thought plane” I would just meditate for a few hours before each objective session, that way I’d have  a jump on the whole higher thought thing.  When they found out, they were so upset with me and I thought I’d be kicked out.  They said I was interfering with a delicate and sacred process and I was combining the tech.  I was introduced to the idea of “squirreling” the tech and how it was the worst thing you could do.  That the tech need always be pure and never used with anything else.  I guess that should have been a warning sign.  Nothing else exists except Scientology.  Nothing….

I was introduced and taken to LRH birthday celebrations where hundreds or thousands of people chanted and cheered about the man L. Ron Hubbard and our mission to clear the planet.  I can’t explain how attractive this idea was to me.  It was one thing to get a job at McDonalds…it was another to be directly responsible to help win the fight against the evils of psychiatry and suppression.  It was the plot of every Sci-Fi book that I ever read, except I could be the protagonist.  To hold the secret truths.  I wanted desperately to believe that I was a part of something great.

3)    STAFF MEMBERS:  Here was usually around 50% Scientologists and 50%“normal people” who really liked Narconon, were former students and didn’t necessarily buy into the rest.  However, it was pretty apparent that if you didn’t further yourself into Scientology you would probably never get a position higher than a basic position.  I am pretty sure that almost every Senior Director or above was a Scientologist at the Narconons I attended or visited.  If you weren’t a Scientologist, you generally weren’t regarded as a part of the elite group.  Part of the many problems that I experienced was my reluctance to start doing auditing.  It was usually cost related.  Auditing costs A LOT of money.  I never did make the jump.  I think I was looked down upon at times, looked at as not serious about Scientology. 

As a staff member I never learned anything about traditional counseling, support groups, psychology, psychiatry, health care or anything.  Even our drug education was simply about the sauna and how it removed latent particles of drugs from your fat cells.  It’s strange that in a Narconon, we rarely talk about a drugs or addiction.  There are no support groups or anything.  There is no actual counselor where you can process events, feelings or problems.  I recall once where a woman student asked if she could have an AA meeting during her off time and that she had the support of other students because she felt that she wasn’t actually talking about much if anything about addiction at Narconon.  She was handled and eventually asked to leave.  I don’t feel that Scientologists believe that drugs are a primary problem, but just a symptom of not having done enough Scientology.   

I have tried to reconcile Narconon as an alternative, but not very successful, drug treatment program.  In reality, I don’t think it makes any attempt to deal with addiction in a realistic manner at all.  It seems like a handful of random Scientology courses that somewhat fit together in a jumbled puzzle.  It’s like taking random chapters in book and trying to make it all go together in some sort of strange plot.  Most people that attended Narconon had no explanation about “Why or How” these things were supposed to address their addictions.  We were supposed to “figure it out on our own”. 

I think that the reason that Narconons will eventually go completely away isn’t completely because of their deception and dishonesty, although I think it’s a major factor.  It’s the fact that Narconon is completely unwilling to embrace anything outside of something designed or written by LRH.  I often felt that if a Scientologist discovered that having an AA meeting at a Narconon doubled their success rate, they still wouldn’t have one there.  They are limited to a handful of books and that is their ultimate references.  They will never know the joys of discovery that many traditional programs experience when they try something new or that has been recently discovered that helps clients recover.  They will probably never grow, but instead be stuck in looking for random pieces of Scientology that might actually fit.  I tried to keep looking for deeper meaning in the strange jumble of weirdness.  Many of us did.  Reaching for the next carrot, or underneath the next rock. 

4)   SCIENTOLOGISTS: Almost everyone I met at a higher level within a Narconon was a Scientologist.  In the beginning, I was introduced to my first OT.  I met an OT-4, and later many dozens of them at even higher levels.  What is an OT?  Technical term is Operating Thetan, levels 1-8, I think.  They were revered, and if they showed up it was like a Jedi knight showing up.  I was always intrigued by them and would ask about them to other people.  What powers and abilities do they have, I would ask.  It was always vague answers, but they made it clear that one day, I too could be an OT.  I was told that many Scientologists believe that Jesus Christ was an actual OT, and the miracles he could perform would also be possible for a “high enough level OT”.  It was almost like they were revered as gods.  But, I would occasionally encounter OT’s who smoked cigarettes, drank, cheated on their wives, lied and stole money,  and reverted on drugs.  I never understood why Jesus Christ in human form would do such things.  I was never given a good explanation. 

I was also introduced to the idea of the SeaOrg and met with a few SeaOrg members.  Apparently these were Scientologists who signed a billion year contract or something like that.  I tried talking to them and they asked me a few questions.  However, once they discovered that I had tried LSD in my life, they shut down.  Apparently that’s an automatic disqualification to join. 

I was also told the truth of the OrgBoard, which is how every Narconon and Scientology organization is structured.  I was told that it was some of the most advanced form of tech that L.Ron Hubbard gave the world.  I was told that he, through auditing, went back in time and viewed his past lives many (perhaps millions) of years ago.  During an auditing session he saw (while experiencing life as an advanced member of a race of beings) on the wall the OrgBoard.  He memorized it and brought it back with him…an artifact of an advanced race of long ago.  I don’t really know if this is Scientology scripture, only what I was told.  I was told a lot of space opera things.  A lot seemed really bizarre.  But I was in the middle of it.  Some I really tried hard to believe.  I was almost always led to believe that the reason I didn’t understand something is probably because I wasn’t “far enough” spiritually and on the bridge to grasp it.  I guess that I’m still not, for it still doesn’t make much sense to me.

I guess that I wanted to introduce a bit of the culture that is found in many Narconons.  After re-reading everything that I wrote down here, I’m asking myself “how in the heck were you even in somewhat agreement with what appears to be absolute insanity?”  Well, I guess when you are immersed in a cult-like atmosphere several things happen.

1)   You are given secrets that only you and a select few possess.
2)   You do not allow traditional counseling into your organization.
3)   You are not permitted to question too much.
4)   You are given an enemy to fight against.
5)   There is a leader you are told has the secrets.
6)   If anyone is antagonistic towards you, they are probably evil and must be cut off.
7)   You are given your own language.
8)   You only associate with and date other scientologists or Narconon grads.
9)   You work 60-80 hours a week. 
10)   You are always offered another carrot.
11)   If it isn’t written by LRH it probably isn’t true.

I know that for many people on these sites, the cult-like atmosphere is obvious.  But it’s really obvious on the outside looking in.  When you are in the middle of it all, you are the ones with the secrets and the ones who are right.  Everyone else is wrong.

How strange it is that I actually was a member of a cult.  What an odd thing to say, but even odder to have experienced.

Offline Mary_McConnell

  • High Value Target
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    • Formerly Fooled Finally Free of The Deceptive Cult Called Scientology
Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2013, 12:20 »
^^^^^  Oh my God! I've read and heard many experiences before but ^^^^ THIS is priceless! Thank you so much! It will help many, many people. 

And a terrific explanation, as CoolHand mentions below)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 16:22 by Mary_McConnell »
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline CoolHand

  • Actual Trouble Source
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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2013, 14:10 »
What a wonderful explanation, thank you!

Offline mefree

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Re: Narconon, Scientology and Intervention Services and Technologies
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2013, 23:22 »
Very detailed. Thanks!
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama