Author Topic: Question about PTS for family members under the care of a psychiatrist  (Read 8677 times)

Offline Mary_McConnell

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^^ also depends on how long it was between all the drinks.
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Offline mefree

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^^ also depends on how long it was between all the drinks.

True!
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Offline wynot

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I kept wanting to write something really snarky about this story, especially that mug-shot. But I couldn't help thinking of my last mug-shot, and I was stone-cold sober for that one! ||||o||||

So instead I wrote a song. It's a really bad song, but that seems fitting. www.soulgarage.net/songs/PTS.mp3  is a two-part round: the lyrics are thus - I'm P T S / You're P T S / And everybody else is P T S! Rinse and repeat. (For those of you who have heard me sing, this is just piano and trap-set, so your ears are safe L-O-:)

'til next time;
wynot
"When nothing seems to help, I go look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."

Jacob Riis

Offline ethercat

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(For those of you who have heard me sing, this is just piano and trap-set, so your ears are safe L-O-:)

LOL, wynot.
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Offline Mary_McConnell

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I love it, wynot!!  Thanks for the chuckles  L-O-:
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Offline wynot

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I love it, wynot!!  Thanks for the chuckles  L-O-:

Glad you liked it. I thought it would be fun to get a chorus going at a picket sometime. And not as mean as some things we could sing:(to the tune of 'House of the Rising Sun') There is a house in Clearwater/ they call Fort Harrison/ and it meant the death of a young woman there/ named Lisa McPherson/...

'til next time;
wynot
"When nothing seems to help, I go look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."

Jacob Riis

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Now I know who to contact... :) Thanks
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline Damian DeWitt

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Thanks for this information. It is just this sort of detailed research I appreciate from you and others here at RFTTP.

She may have not been in light of this analysis legally intoxicated. I am wondering if her lawyer will use this argument in her defense.

However, it looks like she was imparied because she nearly ran into an ambulance.

^^^^ Denise only had only about 4 drinks in her. Her BAC as .11-.12  ( 50% above the .08 limit for driving.  With her weight of 156 lbs as shown here http://florida.mugshotsdatabase.com/1084816/denise-gentile-mug-shot/ 
you can see on the woman's chart below, that at the 160 level of weight her level .11-.12 makes her between 4-5 drinks which is not legally intoxicated or significantly impaired.
http://www.brad21.org/bac_charts.html

Offline BigBeard

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That charts based on Virginia law. It doesn't matter what your height, weight, or gender is in Florida, if your BAC is equal to, or higher than, .08 while operating a motor vehicle you are considered to be legally intoxicated.

From the Florida Statutes:

"Driving under the influence (DUI) is defined as operating a motor vehicle while impaired with a blood alcohol level (BAC) of .08 or higher, a chemical substance, or a controlled substance (316.193, F.S.). A DUI will remain on your driving record for 75 years."

BigBeard

Offline Damian DeWitt

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I am reallly loving this refining of information.

It reminds me what the great Professor Carroll Quigley said about the hallmark of Western Civilization:

"Truth emerges over time through a communal process."



That charts based on Virginia law. It doesn't matter what your height, weight, or gender is in Florida, if your BAC is equal to, or higher than, .08 while operating a motor vehicle you are considered to be legally intoxicated.

From the Florida Statutes:

"Driving under the influence (DUI) is defined as operating a motor vehicle while impaired with a blood alcohol level (BAC) of .08 or higher, a chemical substance, or a controlled substance (316.193, F.S.). A DUI will remain on your driving record for 75 years."

Offline ethercat

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All things being equal (weight, body type, male or female, time elapsed and food consumed, etc.), someone who is used to drinking a lot and has a high tolerance is going to have the same BAC after consuming the same amount of alcohol as someone who is not used to drinking a lot.  The tolerance level does not affect the BAC, but it does affect the person's perception of how impaired they are. 

Someone who is used to drinking becomes more accustomed to the feeling, and can compensate outwardly to a degree, where the person who rarely drinks and has a low tolerance will not be able to compensate as well, because they'll be more focused on dealing with the unusual feeling.  Both would measure at the same BAC, though, because the numbers don't conform to how intoxicated someone feels.

I am not sure what "legally intoxicated" means, outside of the context of driving (or possibly a public display of drunkenness), and certainly she was legally intoxicated if the limit is .08 and her BAC was .11-.12, regardless how many drinks she had over what period of time. 

It's also pointless to estimate how many drinks she had because we don't know what period of time she had been drinking for.  The wikipedia chart says "Subtract approximately 0.01 every 40 minutes after drinking," so she might have had 6 or 8, but enough time had elapsed that the level had gone down.

Did anyone else notice that the wikipedia chart cites 0.6 fluid ounces of alcohol for a shot, glass of wine, or a beer, but the # of drinks chart says one drink is 0.5 fluid ounces of alcohol?  Hmmm....

That's my 2 cents, so I can participate in this communal refining of truth, too.   :D

I'm not even gonna attempt to work out the EBAC formula below.   ***:|
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Offline mefree

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Not true when it comes to reverse tolerance.
Quote
Consumption-induced tolerance
Alcohol tolerance is increased by regular drinking.[1] This reduced sensitivity requires that higher quantities of alcohol be consumed in order to achieve the same effects as before tolerance was established. Alcohol tolerance may lead to (or be a sign of) alcohol dependency.[1]

Heavy alcohol consumption over a period of years can lead to "reverse tolerance". A liver can be damaged by chronic alcohol use, leading to a buildup of fat and scar tissue. The reduced ability of such a liver to metabolize or break down alcohol means that small amounts can lead to a high blood alcohol concentration (BAC) and more rapid intoxication.   
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
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Offline wynot

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Po-t8-oh po-taught-oh, tom-8-oh tom-aught-to (and yes, Tom aught to quit the cult); either way, she was intoxicated enough to be driving dangerously, which is why drunk-driving laws don't usually get much debate... That ambulance might have been saving someone we liked, or even someone we disliked, but not enough to wish them ill! ;)

'til next time;
wynot
"When nothing seems to help, I go look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."

Jacob Riis

Offline ethercat

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Not true when it comes to reverse tolerance.
Quote
Consumption-induced tolerance
Alcohol tolerance is increased by regular drinking.[1] This reduced sensitivity requires that higher quantities of alcohol be consumed in order to achieve the same effects as before tolerance was established. Alcohol tolerance may lead to (or be a sign of) alcohol dependency.[1]

Heavy alcohol consumption over a period of years can lead to "reverse tolerance". A liver can be damaged by chronic alcohol use, leading to a buildup of fat and scar tissue. The reduced ability of such a liver to metabolize or break down alcohol means that small amounts can lead to a high blood alcohol concentration (BAC) and more rapid intoxication.   

I don't deny what you say about reduced tolerance, but I had intended more to address the fact that BAC consists of a measurable number, which does not change regardless of tolerance.  Perhaps I could have said it better, or more concisely. 

Denise Miscavige had a blood alcohol content of .11-.12 which is above the legal .08 limit, despite whether she felt intoxicated or not, or how many drinks she had had.  Her tolerance does not come into play when determining her BAC.

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Offline mefree

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Po-t8-oh po-taught-oh, tom-8-oh tom-aught-to (and yes, Tom aught to quit the cult); either way, she was intoxicated enough to be driving dangerously, which is why drunk-driving laws don't usually get much debate... That ambulance might have been saving someone we liked, or even someone we disliked, but not enough to wish them ill! ;)

'til next time;
wynot

Sho nuff ;-)
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
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Offline SocialTransparency

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  Her tolerance does not come into play when determining her BAC.
True that.