Author Topic: Need Help - Preferably anyone with experience with Narconon Vista Bay  (Read 2803 times)

Offline Enjay

  • New Around Here
  • Posts: 4
My father is a drug and alcohol addict.  He has tried 12-step programs before, and they do not work for him.  He is a very intelligent man, and I am not sure if he believes in God.  He says he does not.  At some point, the abuse was so out-of-control that I called a help-hotline.  I explained that my dad did not want to enter another 12-step program. At the recommendation of the hotline, my mother and I eventually ended up speaking with a representative at Vista Bay.  Long story short, they bated my mother into staging an intervention when she was on the fence about doing so, and lied to us about the program.  My father says that the facility is like jail, and they make him do pointless exercises and offer him no therapy.  We read Book 1, and now too think this program is a complete scam.  They also lied to us about the amount of insurance coverage we would get for the program, and persuaded my mom to take out lines of credit on top of emptying her savings to pay for the treatment program.  I don't know what to do.  My dad will not stay in the program much longer, and at this point, I don't think he should.  We probably have to file a lawsuit based upon these misrepresentations, and others.  My dad is sober, but he is still not healthy, and I don't even know where to begin to look for other treatments, lawyers, etc. We live in the LA area, so if anyone knows of any resources close to here, that would be very helpful.  Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Offline Enjay

  • New Around Here
  • Posts: 4
If there is a way for you to extract my email and email me privately, please contact me.  I just need help.  Thank you

Offline Blacksheep

  • On the path to knowledge
  • Posts: 5
Have you checked into Promises or Passages? I know Passages is non 12 Step, not sure about Promises. I work in in the drug rehab field and I have heard many good things about both of them.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 00:55 by Blacksheep »

Offline Enjay

  • New Around Here
  • Posts: 4
Thank you, I will check into both.

Offline ethercat

  • Global Moderator
  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 3,768
My father is a drug and alcohol addict.  He has tried 12-step programs before, and they do not work for him.  He is a very intelligent man, and I am not sure if he believes in God.  He says he does not.  At some point, the abuse was so out-of-control that I called a help-hotline.  I explained that my dad did not want to enter another 12-step program. At the recommendation of the hotline, my mother and I eventually ended up speaking with a representative at Vista Bay.  Long story short, they bated my mother into staging an intervention when she was on the fence about doing so, and lied to us about the program.  My father says that the facility is like jail, and they make him do pointless exercises and offer him no therapy.  We read Book 1, and now too think this program is a complete scam.  They also lied to us about the amount of insurance coverage we would get for the program, and persuaded my mom to take out lines of credit on top of emptying her savings to pay for the treatment program.  I don't know what to do.  My dad will not stay in the program much longer, and at this point, I don't think he should.  We probably have to file a lawsuit based upon these misrepresentations, and others.  My dad is sober, but he is still not healthy, and I don't even know where to begin to look for other treatments, lawyers, etc. We live in the LA area, so if anyone knows of any resources close to here, that would be very helpful.  Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to Tipping Point, Enjay.  I'd suggest you contact your county mental health services or your family physician and see if they have any recommendations of treatment facilities for your father's particular situation.  I'm sorry he ended up at Vista Bay.  Also, please research any facilities or programs thoroughly before you make any commitments (but you probably know that now).
   Narconon Reviews
   Independent Reviews of the Narconon Drug Rehab Programs
   Answers to Frequently Asked But Seldom Answered Questions

Offline ethercat

  • Global Moderator
  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 3,768
Have you checked into Promises or Passages? I know Passages is non 12 Step, not sure about Promises. I work in in the drug rehab field and I have heard many good things about both of them.

Welcome to Tipping Point, Blacksheep.  Both of those look like they may be more expensive than Enjay is looking for, considering that s/he says:

They also lied to us about the amount of insurance coverage we would get for the program, and persuaded my mom to take out lines of credit on top of emptying her savings to pay for the treatment program.

Please tell us more about your work in the drug rehab field.   :)
   Narconon Reviews
   Independent Reviews of the Narconon Drug Rehab Programs
   Answers to Frequently Asked But Seldom Answered Questions

Offline Blacksheep

  • On the path to knowledge
  • Posts: 5
Hello Ethercat,
  I've been skulking here for a while now just catching up on everything that I was previously unaware of. I'm an Assistant Counselor at a fairly popular drug rehab in Alabama. I'm also pursuing my degree in Behavioral Science and then going straight to a masters program in either social work or behavioral science. I work with addicts and alcoholics on a daily basis and it is both rewarding and frustrating. Seeing the atrocities commited by NN and their practices boggles my mind. None of their techniques would possibly be allowed in any reputable facility. They basically don't have a clue as to what they're doing in regards to drug rehabilitation. Well either that or they just don't care, which is probably the more accurate conclusion.

Offline SocialTransparency

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 1,324
Hello Ethercat,
  I've been skulking here for a while now just catching up on everything that I was previously unaware of. I'm an Assistant Counselor at a fairly popular drug rehab in Alabama. I'm also pursuing my degree in Behavioral Science and then going straight to a masters program in either social work or behavioral science. I work with addicts and alcoholics on a daily basis and it is both rewarding and frustrating. Seeing the atrocities commited by NN and their practices boggles my mind. None of their techniques would possibly be allowed in any reputable facility. They basically don't have a clue as to what they're doing in regard to drug rehabilitation. Well, either that or they just don't care, which is probably the more accurate conclusion.

 Thanks for the input Blacksheep. It is so refreshing to hear from other individuals within the rehabilitation community reaching out and sharing their knowledge. It is also nice to hear others within the industry are seeing how the failed modality used by NN and its effect on clients.

Offline Blacksheep

  • On the path to knowledge
  • Posts: 5
Thanks for the welcome! I feel like a late arriver to all of this information, but I've been keeping all of my co workers at my facility informed on what NN considers "treatment". It's safe to say I'm not the only one appaled. We take this form of abuse towards patients personally. We genuinely care for our patients and we do our best to help them recover their lives, but we can't guarantee any kind of success. It's ultimately up to the patients. The current success rate at any given rehab is around 3-5% and that's a pretty standard percentage. To make claims otherwise is just straight up lying. Of course, everyone here knows this by now, but still, it's outrageous. I just hope those who need help don't look at an NN facility and think that all facilities are like that.

Offline ethercat

  • Global Moderator
  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 3,768
Hello Ethercat,
  I've been skulking here for a while now just catching up on everything that I was previously unaware of. I'm an Assistant Counselor at a fairly popular drug rehab in Alabama. I'm also pursuing my degree in Behavioral Science and then going straight to a masters program in either social work or behavioral science. I work with addicts and alcoholics on a daily basis and it is both rewarding and frustrating. Seeing the atrocities commited by NN and their practices boggles my mind. None of their techniques would possibly be allowed in any reputable facility. They basically don't have a clue as to what they're doing in regards to drug rehabilitation. Well either that or they just don't care, which is probably the more accurate conclusion.

Thanks Blacksheep.  It's good to have your observations, and to know that the real rehabs are finding out more about Narconon.

The only thing I'd quibble with that you've said is that they don't care.  I'm sure there are some that don't, but I think the majority think they're really doing the best thing for the clients.  (Of course, as the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.)  When the good people figure it out, they usually quit.  See Luke (Cool Hand) and David Lee (ist5551).  It's my understanding, too, that Luke has changed a lot of his opinions about Narconon since coming here and finding out more and more that he didn't know.  There are others, also, who didn't like what they realized or found out, and left, but for various reasons, are not as vocal. 

But, definitely, I agree that they don't have a clue what they're doing.  They're following a 2nd rate science fiction author who styled himself as an authority on everything known, and unknown, to man.  No significant changes have been made to the program since it started, nor can changes be made, because Hubbard was an expert  ::) and he forbid making changes to his "technology."

 JO:=<

(Hubbard called people who make changes to anything scientology "squirrels", so we kinda love squirrels around here.)

Thanks for the welcome! I feel like a late arriver to all of this information, but I've been keeping all of my co workers at my facility informed on what NN considers "treatment". It's safe to say I'm not the only one appaled. We take this form of abuse towards patients personally. We genuinely care for our patients and we do our best to help them recover their lives, but we can't guarantee any kind of success. It's ultimately up to the patients. The current success rate at any given rehab is around 3-5% and that's a pretty standard percentage. To make claims otherwise is just straight up lying. Of course, everyone here knows this by now, but still, it's outrageous. I just hope those who need help don't look at an NN facility and think that all facilities are like that.

Unfortunately, I have heard several times of people who still need help after Narconon, but they're so turned off by their experience with NN that they refuse to get help elsewhere.   I've also heard of people who are so determined never to end up anywhere like NN again, that the memory of it helps them stay clean.  Narconon would point at that as proof their program works, but I don't think recovery should come at the expense of a person being traumatized and scarred from their rehab experience. 

Glad you're here - feel free to jump on in wherever you have anything to say, and definitely keep your peers and co workers informed as to the latest happenings.  If any of them would like to talk about NN too, invite them to join the forum.  :yes:)
   Narconon Reviews
   Independent Reviews of the Narconon Drug Rehab Programs
   Answers to Frequently Asked But Seldom Answered Questions

Offline mefree

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 4,351
Welcome, Enjay and Blacksheep!

To Enjay: ethercat made a good suggestion to check with mental health resources in the county where your Dad lives. I'm so very sorry to hear that he found Narconon. 

Blacksheep: We need more treatment professionals on the forum. I'm really glad you are here.

 :w:e:l:c:o:m:e:


The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Mary_McConnell

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 2,861
    • Formerly Fooled Finally Free of The Deceptive Cult Called Scientology
FYI, Enjay and I are in communication.

Hi Blacksheep!

I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline Blacksheep

  • On the path to knowledge
  • Posts: 5
I shouldn't have dumped everyone that's at NN in the same bucket. I agree, I'm sure there are plenty of people of work at NN that DO care about the patient's welfare. Thanks again to everyone for the welcome, I look forward to joining the discussions in the future!!

Offline BMF

  • Potential Trouble Source
  • Posts: 240
  • Do or Do Not. There is no try.
I shouldn't have dumped everyone that's at NN in the same bucket. I agree, I'm sure there are plenty of people of work at NN that DO care about the patient's welfare. Thanks again to everyone for the welcome, I look forward to joining the discussions in the future!!

Welcome to the TP!!  Lots of stuff for you to learn about here.  Feel free to ask questions.   
"But now," says the Once-ler, "Now that you're here,
the word of the Lorax seems perfectly clear.
UNLESS someone like you,
cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. Its not!"   - Dr. Seuss