Author Topic: Narconon: Purification induced heatstroke  (Read 18051 times)

Offline VONSTEPHANSON III

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Narconon: Purification induced heatstroke
« on: October 23, 2010, 16:17 »
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Edit: restored thread title (ethercat)

                                                                                                                     
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 21:09 by ethercat »

Offline Stutroup

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2010, 16:32 »
Welcome to the forum.  I only wish it were under better circumstances!  How is your son?  Did he eventually get medical attention?

Sadly, his is not the first case of heat injury from their saunas.  And drugs are often encountered by Narconon students.

There needs to be a massive investigation into the program -- into every branch, regardless of how "independent."

I do wish you and yours the absolute best!

Offline ethercat

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2010, 19:36 »
Just drove 1300 miles to get my son out of the Warner Springs Narconon. He was on the verge of unconsciousness after spending too much time in the sauna. One note, a "Quick Fix Mentality" is normal behavior and a characteristic for an addict, in or out of a toxic state, that needs to be understood. My son was left in the sauna, because the "sauna specialist" forgot he was in there. As a result, my son pushed himself to "purify" asap. He began to feel sick, got out, reported his symptoms, turned purple and fought to stay conscious. He was told by staff to go to lunch and wait it out after he asked my son whether or not he wanted to see a Dr. Woh! Wait a minute, you're asking a person to make a good decision on his well being and health that's almost unconscious?? Isn't this someone who isn't capable of making healthy decisions in the first place! His best thinking got him into the situation he's at! I put him into an institution that was responsible for his well being and they dropped the ball. Not to mention a week later he was exposed to drugs inside the facility. WTF!! They allowed a student to go L.O.A., and return. As a result this student brought drugs into the facility to share with others. This place is a joke and harmful to the very people who need help recovering from addictive thinking!

VONSTEPHANSON III, I echo Stutroup's welcome to the forum, and thanks for your post. 

It does seem fairly common, from what we hear, that drugs are being used in narconon facilities, and the staff has little in the way of medical training.  More and more sad stories are coming out of the various narconons almost weekly. 

Thank goodness your son was able to contact you and you were able to go get him.

I hope he isn't permanently harmed from his heatstroke experience, and that you will, at the very least, file a complaint with the licensing agency for that narconon location.  Is Warner Springs one of the California narconons?

If there's anything we can help you with, let us know.  We have a couple of people here who are pretty much experts on narconon (Mary McConnell and David Love aka Intelligence) who will, no doubt, be along soon and see your post.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 21:40 by ethercat »
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Offline mefree

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2010, 19:39 »
I am so sorry to hear about your son's experience and please let us know how he is doing when you have time.

Unfortunately, there have been many similar allegations of substandard care at Narconon locations across the country.
Some examples are here:  http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/Narconon.aspx

You can file a complaint with the state regulatory agency in CA. Information here: http://www.adp.ca.gov/feedback/feedback.shtml

You can also document your story on the ripoff report and as ethercat mentioned we have a few others who will probably give you some additional feedback on the forum.

I wish you and your family the very best!

 
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Sunshine

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2010, 20:10 »
New here, is there a way I can communicate with a person who has posted here outside the forum?

Offline ethercat

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2010, 20:29 »
Hello Sunshine, and welcome.

We do not offer up people's contact information, unless they choose to do so themselves.  May I ask why you want to communicate with someone outside the forum?  I am the moderator.  You can contact me at ethercat @ ethercat.com (remove the spaces around the @ symbol).
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Offline Sunshine

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2010, 22:27 »
ethercat,
I think I just sent you a personal message not sure?

Offline ethercat

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2010, 23:11 »
Yes, I got it, and sent you one back.  Thanks, Sunshine.
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Offline xenubarb

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2010, 09:21 »
I've had two calls regarding NN Warner Springs this week. This guy's son isn't doing too well, and he only just discovered narconon-exposed dot org,, which he shoulda found before sending his kid there.  But, I understand, it's impossible to google drug rehabilitation without encountering Narconon.

I told this one guy if he wants to get his kid out (and he's in your neck of the woods, ethercat) I am willing to drive up there, get his kid, and drop him off at the airport or train station.

I really think Narconon is on the edge of failure, at least in geologic time. If David Love can take down Trois Rivieres, the documentation will make it easier to take down here in the US.

Offline mefree

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 09:36 »
I've had two calls regarding NN Warner Springs this week. This guy's son isn't doing too well, and he only just discovered narconon-exposed dot org,, which he shoulda found before sending his kid there.  But, I understand, it's impossible to google drug rehabilitation without encountering Narconon.

Yes. It probably doesn't help that Narconon is found on the first 10 pages or more of any google search and most of the pages may not even mention Narconon, but instead are referrral sites. In addition, no mention of Scientology at any point on the website or during any call to to the referral scam hotline.

Narconon exposed http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/ should come up in the first few pages if not the first page of a search and should be LOOKED AT CLOSELY BY ANYONE considering Narconon.

Sounds like this Dad drove 1300 miles to get his son. Would love to get an update on how he is doing.
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline mefree

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2010, 09:59 »
Not to mention a week later he was exposed to drugs inside the facility. WTF!! They allowed a student to go L.O.A., and return. As a result this student brought drugs into the facility to share with others. This place is a joke and harmful to the very people who need help recovering from addictive thinking!

This seems to be a repeating pattern, does it not?
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline ethercat

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2010, 12:03 »
I've had two calls regarding NN Warner Springs this week. This guy's son isn't doing too well, and he only just discovered narconon-exposed dot org,, which he shoulda found before sending his kid there.  But, I understand, it's impossible to google drug rehabilitation without encountering Narconon.

Yes, they really have a win with their search engine domination, don't they.  They spend more time and effort on SEO than on tending to the care and well-being of their clients.  I know there was an Anonymous effort to overtake them in search results, but I don't think it has been sustained - we need our own SEO experts.

Quote
I told this one guy if he wants to get his kid out (and he's in your neck of the woods, ethercat) I am willing to drive up there, get his kid, and drop him off at the airport or train station.

I assume you're talking about another guy, since Von has already gotten his son.  Your willingness to go get him is above and beyond commendable.   :-D--U 

I'm certainly willing to do anything I can to help him, too, and you're welcome to give him my phone number (which I am sending you in a PM) if he wants to talk to someone closer to home. 

Quote
I really think Narconon is on the edge of failure, at least in geologic time. If David Love can take down Trois Rivieres, the documentation will make it easier to take down here in the US.

I think you are right - more and more is coming out from people who have had problems at narconon - I hope so, at least.  I think it's just a matter of getting the right person's attention (or the right people's attention, since it might end up being at a state level person here in the US).

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Offline VONSTEPHANSON III

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« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2010, 12:18 »
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Offline VONSTEPHANSON III

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« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2010, 12:26 »
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Offline VONSTEPHANSON III

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2010, 12:56 »
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« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 15:46 by VONSTEPHANSON III »

Offline mefree

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2010, 12:58 »
Good to know you are in touch with a lawyer. Follow his advice closely.
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Sunshine

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2010, 22:47 »
VONSTEPHANSON III
In response to your statement  about guidelines, the  California Drug and Alcohol Programs (ADP) http://www.adp.ca.gov/    “The Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs is responsible for administering prevention, treatment, and recovery services for alcohol and drug abuse and problem gambling.”

The law/regulations that all California licensed facilities operate under can be found here http://www.adp.ca.gov/Licensing/laws.shtml and addition to state, alcoholism and drug addiction are considered  disabilities and are protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).

The city/county where the facility is located may require a use permit that could add restrictions; I believe there are no Narconon facilities in California that can provide medical detox at the facility, I know Narconon Warner Springs cannot provide that service.

If you have not, I urge you to file a complaint with ADP http://www.adp.ca.gov/feedback/feedback.shtml and if you would like to receive a copy of all the complaints that have been filed with ADP go here:

http://www.adp.ca.gov/Licensing/faqs.shtml#general
 How can a completed/closed ADP inspection report and/or complaint investigation report be requested on a facility?
The Public Records Act provides the public access to certain information following the completion of on-site inspections. You may request a copy of any completed/closed inspection report or complaint investigation by submitting a written request to:
Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs
Program Compliance Branch – Public Information Request
1700 K Street, 3rd Floor
Sacramento, CA 95811
Via fax at: (916)322-2658
Your request must provide the name and location of the facility and the year the report/investigation was completed.
I hope this helps.

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2010, 00:03 »
Hi sunshine, that wise advise was very kind of you. How do you know about ADP. You sound experienced, lol

~ Mary
http://www.scribd.com/anonymary
http://free-from-scientology.blogspot.com
Victims Of Scientology: Complaints & Concerns About Narconon
http://free-from-scientology.blogspot.com/2009/01/victims-of-scientology-complaints.html
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2010, 01:04 »
Hi VonStephansonIII

I am so sorry about what happened. NN Southern Califorina and it Warner Springs facility have been on my radar for some time now, as I get many complaints about this company.

I hope you have found another place or program to to help your son. I can tell you if a program has had complaints or operates a scam like Narconon. and I can refer you to local gov't funded clinics and NA meetings. Any real help is better than none. Your son got through several weeks in NN onto the sauna so he may just need real counseling and maintenance help away from people places and things. Let me know if I can be of any asistance in your search.

I'm glad you contacted an attorney. Consider contacting Cathie Smith  or James L Moog of The Justin Foundation in CA "The Justin Foundation endeavors to provide consumer support and advocacy for better treatment care on behalf of individuals and families affected by drug abuse." James Moog has helped get complaints I am familiar with addressed at ADP. Last one was Narconon Joshua Hills. It was closed down 6 months ago and I was informed that his efforts were instrumental in that happening. Staff were doing drugs with students, having sex with students, students were bringing in drugs and it was over capacity.
Contact:
E-mail: csmith(at)@thejustinfoundation.org remove the (at)
Mailing Address is: The Justin Foundation P. O. Box 638 Danville, CA  94526
Tel.  (925) 838-4951 Fax. (925) 838-4575   
http://www.thejustinfoundation.org/main.php?pg=bios

If you need an attorney located near that facility, there is one who recently helped another victim to get a refund settlement without going to court. It was done by hourly rate instead of a lump sum fee up front. He was very good and is a pleaseant man to deal with. I was very happy to chat with him b ecause so few attorneys want to take these cases. The victim asked me to refer him because he was so helpful, so let me know. I can PM you the contact information and case name.

Another way to get your refund is to finle a complaint with the CA chapter of the Better Business Bureau.  Narconon So Cal received an A- score but that include the fact they tehy did refund 8 people fully and 2 others partially of 18 in the last 36 months. Go and file a complaint at the below link, after you read  what you will need, as mentioned later in this post.
Complaints:
No. of Cmpl Type of Response
8 Making a full refund, as the consumer requested
2 Making a partial refund
6 Agreeing to perform according to their contract
1 Refusing to make an adjustment
1 Refuse to adjust, relying on terms of agreement
0 Unanswered
0 Unassigned
18  Total 
http://www.la.bbb.org/Business-Report/Narconon-Southern-Calif-Inc-13106049

On your post about standards and such - Sady, there are no real set standards on rehab facilities governed by the state of California except health code related requirements and Fed HIPAA laws with state additions that protect resident personal information and records. The state is just getting a plan in to standardize drug counselor requirements. If you can believe it, Narconons in CA are actually allowed to accept dual diagnosis patients ( mental illness and substance abuse) even though they are anti-psychiatry and have no skills in the area.

If you want to make noise, write your complaint to ADP as stated by Sunshine and send one with specific particulars to the FCC if you found the place over the internet. Here is the form: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ .

You must have all particulars on how you found the place, if you visited a fake referral site ( of which they have many) with web addresses; who you spoke to. If they did not tell you their refnd policy over the phone, it is a violation of federal law so include that information, as they NEVER tell about their NO refund policy until after one  has paid, is rushed and has signed the contract. Dates, names, etc. Write a timeline of events first before writing up your complaint.

Neither ADP or FCC can represent you in getting a refund or suing them personally. They just investigate violations on the laws they govern. If enough people file FCC complaints, they will act and do a full scale investigation but you need thousands of victi complaints. Still, do send one in.

ADP is years behind in acting on complaints. I know this from experience. The complaints coordinator is a good man and gets the complaints compiles and assigned to the invest dept but once it's sent out, you have to keep hounding the investigators. So get a copy of your complaint sent to you, get your investigators name, email address and ph number and your complaint number before you finish with the complaint coordinator.

They are short staffed and the investigators for Narconon cases ( yes, there are 2 people assigned to them) never complete any of them that I know except 1! The excuse is that there is no money for the travel budget and they work 4 day week due to budget restraints. So send a copy of your ADP report/complaint addressed to Director Renee Zito  askadp@adp.ca.gov or call the Directorate at (916) 445-1943 to get her direct email and physical address.

You might be interested in the 2008 Little Hoover Commission report on CA Substance Abuse. There have been many deaths at rehab facilities and the oversight in licensing counselors is a read mess ( since being overhawled)  www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/8195.pdf

Ypu can use the link to my survey here to write down and have ready your information for your complaints.
Victims Of Scientology: Complaints & Concerns About Narconon
http://free-from-scientology.blogspot.com/2009/01/victims-of-scientology-complaints.html

You might be interested in other cases against NN So Cal. Go here and search in the California Documents folder.  http://www.scribd.com/anonymary

Let me know how it goes and if you want that attorney info.
Best wishes,
Mary
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline ethercat

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Re: Purification induced heatstroke
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2010, 06:01 »
Here's a copy of a note I sent an attorney I'm speaking with:

It's obvious that Narconon does not operate under the same guidelines as
real rehab centers do. While they get away with fraud, misrepresentation,
repeated negligence and so on, they continue to harm addicts and the loved
ones who try to help. I have a thirty year history of alcohol and cocaine
use and have just in the last 4 years become healthy. I know what I speak of
in terms of what's required. I was told flat out the 12-step program does
not work for either opiate or meth addicted individuals. Even with my
knowledge, I was persuaded to change my mind. This was only out of
frustration trying to help my son, after four previous attempts to get him
help over a ten year period.
  My point is, in order to change the way Narconon operates, they need to be
forced into following a treatment/business standard which there seems to be
none, anywhere. Why can't a draft for Initiatives be drawn up, presented and
voted on in each state. The only way to hold Narconon responsible is to get
the people to put a standard into law. If government can't do the job, then
the people can. First gather names and signatures of people that have been
ripped off. How I don't know, start a forum? I have to believe there are
enough individuals out there that would act. Exposure seems to be limited in
terms how Narconon scams people out of their money. It has to be national.
What about Dateline NBC or 60 Minutes or something of that nature? Why does
the FBI ignore them? Attorney General? Someone needs to get inside and get
enough tangible evidence to stop them, or at least alter their progress.
Everyone should be playing under the same rules.


Thank you Mary and Sunshine for the good information.

Last year, the FTC put in some guidelines which cover blogs and websites which recommend products or services when they stand to gain financially from the purchase of those products or services.  This is not a law, but a guideline, which requires disclosure of the financial interest.  Failure to disclose could result in an investigation by the FTC. 

Combined with information found about commissions being paid to people (scientologists) who start a blog and refer people to narconon, this might be enough to interest the FTC in investigating this "web of deceit" that narconon has going.

This post is about the FTC regulation:
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,3523.0.html

And this one is about the blog commissions:
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,368.0.html

There have also been ads placed on sites that hire freelance writers for writers for the narconon sites - some placed by the VP (I think) of Narconon International, which all the narconon branches fall under.  Here is one: http://www.freelancer.com/users/1291520.html  The site referred to in that link, about-drugs.org, is registered to Peter Vanauken of Narconon International.

There is a twitter page for Damaso "Don" Delgado, a Georgia scientologist, who lists his bio as "SEO Master at non-profit Narconon Drug Rehab Georgia."  Why does a drug rehab need an SEO (Search Engine Optimization) Master?  To game the search engines, of course.

There is probably more evidence of this sort to be found.  My opinion is that it goes right to the top. 

Narconon branches --> Narconon International --> ABLE (Association of Better Living) --> Church of Scientology International --> RTC (Religious Technology Center).



« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 21:43 by ethercat »
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