Standard Tech NNAH Case Supervision

[Alphajunkmail]

Narconon of Oklahoma, NNAH is keeping student case information secure and the separation of Scientology intact. They are doing this by sending the only C/S they had left, Talin Schotters to the Church of Scientology in California for extensive "training" on the new Golden Age of Tech II materials. According to sources within, Talin has been gone for months and all student information is emailed to her so it can be properly programmed for each student's individual case needs (so Books 1-8 in that order). Once Talin has fully been reprogrammed under the revised materials within the church, she will return to Arrowhead to fully Disseminate her newfound understanding of L. Ron & Miscaviage's will to the soon to be indoctrinated students. Knowing Arrowhead, once these new practices are implemented, the "VALUE" of the program will probably increase by at least $5000. Maybe then the Smith Clan will add a shed or carport to their cabin. Move over George & Weezy Jefferson, the Smiths and Scientology are moving on up.

[Alphajunkmail]

Correction: Talin Schotters returned to Oklahoma yesterday or today. The new phase of Scientology reprogramming should begin soon. She may even be "on post" as early as Monday.
The new objectives program should be even better than when Roy Brock was there squirelling the tech, as they say. A few years back, Roy was the Senior C/S and he had all but eliminated book 4B from the program with Gary Smith & Kathy Gosselin's full support. One day Narconon International  (when they still existed) came in and forced him out, shutting down his alternate objective program. Like the cockroaches they are, Kathy & Gary scattered like someone switched on the lights and denied any involvement or advocation of Roy's proposal. Save themselves from the Committee of Evidence while throwing anyone nearby to the wolves. Isn't Gary a freedom medal winner too? AH Ha ha ha. Aha ha ha ha. Miscaviage got it out of the bottom of a box of Frankenberry Cereal.

[10oriocookies]

Do I know you?   Interesting about Derry.  Talin is actually a pretty cool chick.  I like her husband too.  The thing about Roy Brock goes back a bit further, but it doesn't surprise me he got the axe.  His explanation why it was okay to smoke so many cigarettes was pretty funny.

If the census numbers you posted are true then they are definitely not going to be producing their way out of this.  Their only option is to morph or close.  The halfway house is their logical solution but they fail to realize courts don't accept their modality as valid treatment and there aren't enough locals to warrant a facility that size.

My two cents.  Anywhooo, send me a private message if you feel so inclined.

[Mary_McConnell]

Do I know you?   Interesting about Derry.  Talin is actually a pretty cool chick.  I like her husband too.  The thing about Roy Brock goes back a bit further, but it doesn't surprise me he got the axe.  His explanation why it was okay to smoke so many cigarettes was pretty funny.

If the census numbers you posted are true then they are definitely not going to be producing their way out of this.  Their only option is to morph or close.  The halfway house is their logical solution but they fail to realize courts don't accept their modality as valid treatment and there aren't enough locals to warrant a facility that size.

My two cents.  Anywhooo, send me a private message if you feel so inclined.

Doug Schotters is a deceptive, mean troll and if you knew all that I know about what he's been up to, you might not like or respect him as much as you have because of the past.

[Alphajunkmail]

Do I know you?   Interesting about Derry.  Talin is actually a pretty cool chick.  I like her husband too.  The thing about Roy Brock goes back a bit further, but it doesn't surprise me he got the axe.  His explanation why it was okay to smoke so many cigarettes was pretty funny.

If the census numbers you posted are true then they are definitely not going to be producing their way out of this.  Their only option is to morph or close.  The halfway house is their logical solution but they fail to realize courts don't accept their modality as valid treatment and there aren't enough locals to warrant a facility that size.

My two cents.  Anywhooo, send me a private message if you feel so inclined.

No actually we have never met, you were there before I ever got to Narconon and you were long gone before I routed on. I may at some point PM you, but right now I am still very new and fearful of how many connections I make but I sincerely appreciate the offer. Just too soon for me right now.
It is very true about Derry along with so much more. I didn't have much personal interaction with Talin other than her screaming at me a few times about her C/Sing getting done the way she wrote it. I didn't have a chance to get to know her. Doug seemed alright but again, not someone I had the chance to spend time with on a personal level. According to my insider, Doug is gone from NNAH and he works for the Dept. of Defense on their IT projects in McAlester.

[10oriocookies]

You have nothing to fear from me or anyone who posts regularly on this board.  If you have seen a lot then the best thing to do is report them to the applicable state or federal agencies.

Your friend is in need of real help.  If they aren't willing to stand up and fight for their recovery, I don't know how much of what they tell you can be trusted.

[Alphajunkmail]

You have nothing to fear from me or anyone who posts regularly on this board.  If you have seen a lot then the best thing to do is report them to the applicable state or federal agencies.

Your friend is in need of real help.  If they aren't willing to stand up and fight for their recovery, I don't know how much of what they tell you can be trusted.

The person is in need of help but isn't there to handle a drug addiction more than they are their marriage. As for trust, I agree but anything relayed is limited to operational, program and staffing news. They aren't going to have access to meetings or the inner secrets while on the program. Most of the information received is coming from staff in a conversational way or through direct observation on the part of the insider. Then I use my "friendships" with current staff to verify the information before passing it on. AS soon as I hear, I try to verify, then I make a post about it. I don't want to assume anything and post before the information is verified because if I do, I can fall into the NN trap of purposely being relayed incorrect things which then expose the insider(s). Plural because certain staff are now climbing aboard and voluntarily telling things.

[Mary_McConnell]

 I am finding some of what you say conflicting. You originally stated that  ( the bolded part below)

Good news! We have an insider at Arrowhead now. This person is former staff with strong allies willing to feed him/her with information which will be relayed back. Updates to follow as they come.
Currently ABLE is occupying the Canadian location. Expansion and renovation plans have already begun at the old detox in McAlester with plans to certify as a halfway house to scam the system more. Our insider is having their spouse send a cell phone in soon so updates will be streamlined.
BONUS!!!!!! Rebecca Pool (Gary Smith's daughter and accomplice in insurance fraud is back and working there running the Executives under Gary's commands. Also, former Deputy Executive Director, Michael J. Gosselin has been demoted to a yard hand and his wife Kathy has been forced out. There is dissention in the ranks.
The golden age of narconon is among us with brand new materials designed to kill your loved ones 1 TR at a time.

But then you say.... ( in bold)

The person is in need of help but isn't there to handle a drug addiction more than they are their marriage. As for trust, I agree but anything relayed is limited to operational, program and staffing news. They aren't going to have access to meetings or the inner secrets while on the program. Most of the information received is coming from staff in a conversational way or through direct observation on the part of the insider.  Then I use my "friendships" with current staff to verify the information before passing it on. AS soon as I hear, I try to verify, then I make a post about it. I don't want to assume anything and post before the information is verified because if I do, I can fall into the NN trap of purposely being relayed incorrect things which then expose the insider(s). Plural because certain staff are now climbing aboard and voluntarily telling things.

Anyone can get staffing, operational and program news. I get stuff like that comes my way all the time....most not worth posting about or doing anything with. I am sure others here also receive communications, either from old friends, or co-workers or tips...  Much of the information I add some others here received may be helpful if needed in some way but that information is rarely posted.  \

People reading this forum are generally those searching for information on Narconon ( or the Per Wickstrom unbranded programs in MI ), or they are or friends, loved ones or direct victims of the programs or sales scams used to sell it. Some are former staff or former scientologists interested in what's going on. These, in addition to the general public of  lurkers. And the Narconon, Scientology, Best Drug Rehab and A Forever Recovery trolls trying to know what people here are up to.

It always raised a big red flag for me ( and perhaps 10oriocookies and others) when someone says that a person sent to Narconon does not need to be there for their addiction.  The relapse rate for Narconon staff is even higher than it is for patients. The seriously flawed Narconon program is so in-equipped in helping people get and stay recovered, that they have  always had to resort to lying about it's success rate. Now you may think your friend is being forced to go to rehab for some other reason but it's highly likely that he IS an addict in need of recovery and that his family finally put their foot down because he was dragging everyone else in the family down the tube with his instability. And they finally got him to agree to go back or face some consequences he knew he didn't want to face.  But nobody goes to rehab, willingly or not, unless they need it.  For all the years I have been an activist, a critic of Narconon, I have never once seen or known of someone sent to `

[Mary_McConnell]

 I am finding some of what you say conflicting. You originally stated that   

Good news! We have an insider at Arrowhead now. This person is former staff with strong allies willing to feed him/her with information which will be relayed back.

But then you say.... ( in bold)

The person is in need of help but isn't there to handle a drug addiction more than they are their marriage. As for trust, I agree but anything relayed is limited to operational, program and staffing news. They aren't going to have access to meetings or the inner secrets while on the program. Most of the information received is coming from staff in a conversational way or through direct observation on the part of the insider.   Then I use my "friendships" with current staff to verify the information before passing it on. AS soon as I hear, I try to verify, then I make a post about it. I don't want to assume anything and post before the information is verified because if I do, I can fall into the NN trap of purposely being relayed incorrect things which then expose the insider(s). Plural because certain staff are now climbing aboard and voluntarily telling things.

Anyone can get staffing, operational and program news. I get stuff like that comes my way all the time....most not worth posting about or doing anything with. I am sure others here also receive communications, either from old friends, or co-workers or tips...  Much of the information I add some others here received may be helpful if needed in some way but that information is rarely posted.

People reading this forum are generally those searching for information on Narconon ( or the Per Wickstrom unbranded programs in MI ), or they are or friends, loved ones or direct victims of the programs or sales scams used to sell it. Some are former staff or former scientologists interested in what's going on. These, in addition to the general public of  lurkers. And the Narconon, Scientology, Best Drug Rehab and A Forever Recovery trolls trying to know what people here are up to.

It always raised a big red flag for me ( and perhaps 10oriocookies and others) when someone says that a person sent to Narconon does not need to be there for their addiction.  The relapse rate for Narconon staff is even higher than it is for patients. The seriously flawed Narconon program is so in-equipped in helping people get and stay recovered, that they have  always had to resort to lying about it's success rate.

Now you may think your friend is being forced to go to rehab for some other reason but it's highly likely that he IS an addict in need of recovery and that his family finally put their foot down because he was dragging everyone else in the family down the tube with his instability. And they finally got him to agree to go back or face some consequences he knew he didn't want to face. But nobody goes to rehab, willingly or not, unless they have a substance abuse problem.  For all the years I have been an activist, a critic of Narconon, I have never once seen or known of anyone who went to any rehab program that didn't need help.

Your friend is there for a reason. I think that as long as he/she is there and knows the program, and has agreed to do it  AGAIN of his own free will, and would rather be there than go to another program or suffer whatever consequences are being laid out for him if he didn't agree to go, that you should just let the person be. Eventually, from all you have posted here, Arrowhead will start looking for or make ways to prevent students from forwarding any information.  Why endanger your friend to have to under go all that ethics stuff if he or she is caught talking to you or writing you, or somehow passing this information on. People have been kicked out for less.  Even dumped at motels with no money, no way home. 

Why endanger him/her?  If he must do the program, why not let the person just get through it and get out of there ? Any recovery help is better than none. Most addicts who get kicked out and dumped at motels have wound up with further addiction issues. I know, off the top of my head, of at least 2 people who, left to their own devices with no way home, died from overdoses at or near the motels they were dumped at by Narconon.

I am also concerned that you feel you have to confirm information you receive with other staff you remain friends with but frankly that is not a wise thing to do if you want your friend to remain safe and anonymous while he/she is at Arrowhead.  People talk.. they share... all it takes is one person telling someone else... it could lead to you friend. And to trouble for him/her.

I always appreciate information posted by new members and former staff.  I am glad that you have joined us and want to help. But I think you need to rethink what you are attempting to do and how you are approaching this. There is no organized "We" here. You may see recent a thread or two on a FOIA records request project or two but, for the most part, people here contribute what information they can, and post it as long as it does not put the safety and well being of another person at risk. 

I will respond separately to your comments on Talin and her training, as I am aware of what is going on with the objectives being overhauled... I wil post some links to information that will bridge with what you wrote.

I'd like to hear more about you.. how you got into Scientology from Narconon ( IIRC, you stated you did and were a course sup for some time. )  It would be helpful to readers to know how you maintained your recovery after Narconon and Scientology, and what has been helpful to you.  I'm also curious about which  services you did in Scientology.  Thanks

[DeathHamster]

All the email from Arrowhead passed through the Church of Scientology mail servers. How secure is that?

[Mary_McConnell]

All the email from Arrowhead passed through the Church of Scientology mail servers. How secure is that?

Did I miss something posted about this? How do we know this? You looked?

If true, I'm sure it's secure. The church takes extra precautions since their site was DDoSed years ago. If you are reporting this fact here  now for the first time, can you provide me with some links or information to support this? I can the forward them to some people who could use them in further documenting the connection between Narconon and Scientology.

Mary

[DeathHamster]

All the email from Arrowhead passed through the Church of Scientology mail servers. How secure is that?

Did I miss something posted about this? How do we know this? You looked?

If true, I'm sure it's secure. The church takes extra precautions since their site was DDoSed years ago. If you are reporting this fact here  now for the first time, can you provide me with some links or information to support this? I can the forward them to some people who could use them in further documenting the connection between Narconon and Scientology.

Mary

Actually, since I don't know exactly how they were getting their email while at training in LA, I can't say that it definitely passed through CoS's email servers.

If they were allowed outside Internet access while on-course, possibly they picked up their email from some outside account. It could happen.

I've never been able to find a smoking trace tying Narconon to Scientology's Internet stuff (not since 2004 when I found an old copy of Narconon's website on Scientology's servers). However, since Narconon Int seems to be RPFed or something, that bumps it up to ABLE Int which seems to be calling the shots.

smtp.able.org (ABLE's mail server) is at IP 198.77.154.222 (it varies), which is in a block owned by Church of Scientology International.

Also at those IPs: smtp.scientology.org, smtp.youthforhumanrights.org, smtp.cchr.org, smtp.thewaytohappiness.org, smtp.drugfreeworld.org, mx.mailpac.net, mx.pacsecurity.net...

I think that it's safe to say that all the email for those organizations passes through the same mail servers.

No doubt CoS would explain this as part of their helping support for humanitarian causes which are otherwise separate organizations.