Author Topic: OK. NOW I am angry ...  (Read 4827 times)

Offline Suppressive Person

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OK. NOW I am angry ...
« on: October 25, 2013, 12:52 »
REALLY angry.

http://glisteningquiveringunderbelly.blogspot.com/2013/10/is-nothing-sacred-per-wickstrom-aiming.html

The line is crossed.

These people know nothing, NOTHING about PTSD.

( Shopping for a new suit and then off to visit my local VA. From there I will go to Congress  -wouldn't be the first time.)

Are you reading this Per?  BACK OFF !


When we remember that we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
-- Mark Twain

Offline BigBeard

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2013, 13:17 »
Firing off several 'poons to VA, Congress Critters, etc., regarding AFT practicing psychiatry without a license by going after victims of PTSD they haven't got the first clue about treating.

BigBeard

Offline source

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2013, 13:31 »
What's most disconcerting about this is that it is obviously a marketing approach aimed towards the upcoming influx of veterans with PTSD who are going to be seeking out treatment.  Now, if they were qualified to treat PTSD there would be nothing wrong with this.

However, PTSD is pretty complex and, in reality, a dual diagnosis and/or facility with primary psychiatric abilities would be able to address this as a co-occuring disorder.  Most facilities may "accept" a client who has PTSD as long as their substance abuse is primary.  However, being able to treat it is a different thing. 

This is almost like the Salvation Army advertising to help schizophrenics.  Sure they could provide some housing but in reality they aren't qualified, nor equipped to be able to handle them or help them in their schizophrenia.

What's alarming is that obviously they have no real understanding of the level of care, nor a real understanding of dual diagnosis or psychiatric issues.  I've never even heard of a facility that advertised to help PTSD that doesn't have a psychiatrist on staff. In most cases PTSD is treated with psychiatric medications in conjunction with psychotherapy. 

Considering that their philosophy is to "encourage clients to stop taking medications" when they enter detox, this is going to result in major problems.

This is only going to hurt a future client and open the door to a major lawsuit, when a client with PTSD enters and receives inappropriate care.  The deposition questions will be interesting when they are asked about this "press release", marketing and their protocols to handle PTSD.  The questions about the suggestions to encourage a client suffering from PTSD to stop taking medications would probably sink them as well.

The absolute arrogance and lack of understanding emulates the same arrogance found in many Narconons across the world.





Offline mefree

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2013, 00:07 »
Arrogance is the right word. This is one of the many reasons that Narconon is dangerous. They have the arrogance to believe they can treat anything.

Talking to ashtrays is not going to help PTSD any more than it has addiction.

Thanks to everyone who is taking the initiative to write.
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Suppressive Person

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 07:19 »
I know people who work at ER's and with PTSD in particular.  I am notifying as many as I can to the inherent danger of "Narconons" masquerading as legitimate drug and alcohol treatment centers.

Yes, most centers will treat the drug and alcohol primary presentation, but they need psychiatrists and other mental health on staff when dealing with PTSD.    Also, the Scientology practice of weaning people off any psychiatric meds during "detox" is a dangerous practice for these patients as well.

A family member had a recent experience with a Vet who was their ride home from a 3rd shift job.  The Vet friend dozed off in the car in parking lot waiting and when he was suddenly awakened he went into an altered ptsd state.  Ultimately the police had to be called and he went to the ER night until his sense of reality returned. No drugs or alcohol were involved.

What will Tranquility Detox or AFR or BDR do in a situation like this?

They have NO psychiatric staff.  Just some off site family practice yahoos and some big burley, muscled guards.

The whole set up is just another tragedy waiting to happen.
When we remember that we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
-- Mark Twain

Offline BigBeard

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 15:54 »
Having had to deal with PTSD before it had a name, I agree 100% there is NO narCONon on the face of the earth equiped to deal with the very real psychiatric issues that can be associated with PTSD.

What AFR is doing is setting itself up for a potential disaster, and I cannot believe any state certification agency is letting them get away with this crap.

BigBeard

Offline ethercat

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2013, 23:24 »
Does the Veteran's Administration offer help for PTSD to vets?  If they can get it for free at the VA hospital with real medical and psychiatric professionals, why would they choose to go to a private facility that's so ill-equipped to handle any form of mental illness?

Plus, the Narconon experience is more likely to cause PTSD than to alleviate it.  The effects can only be worsened in someone who already suffers from it.  It indeed is multiple disasters and tragedies waiting to happen, if veterans with PTSD go there - quite possibly like the Harris Evans event.

Thank you for your efforts, Suppressive Person.   L-O-:
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Offline mefree

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2013, 23:41 »
Does the Veteran's Administration offer help for PTSD to vets?  If they can get it for free at the VA hospital with real medical and psychiatric professionals, why would they choose to go to a private facility that's so ill-equipped to handle any form of mental illness?

The VA does offer help for PTSD.   
http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/where-to-get-help.asp
http://maketheconnection.net/conditions/ptsd
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline ethercat

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Offline source

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2013, 16:50 »
I remember being present when a gentleman who started the purif lied about being on psych meds (lithium, I think) stopped taking them abruptly.

Sometime during the second week he began getting naked and throwing his feces around.  He then went full PTS-3 (in scientology speak or nuts in wog speak) and began seeing angels and things.  He didn't sleep at all and was running around.

Now, if they had simply given him his meds he would have snapped out of it.  But instead there was a series of handlings by an auditor, which included locking him in a room and leaving him alone for a bit.  Also, the police had to be dealt with as he kept running out if the building.

I never really thought much about it but the parallels to the lisa McPherson case are so similar.  This guy survived but when I think of the absolute "knowingness" that everyone had and how they all acted like they were in control it's pretty scary. 

I have no doubt that scientologists would behave much the same way on someone with PTSD, acting confident up until the moment the sufferer pulled out a gun and committed suicide as so often happens with untreated PTSD.

Offline Suppressive Person

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 06:20 »
Exactly source.  These people have no business trying to attract PTSD Vets. They know absolutely NOTHING about PTSD , except what they might read on Wikipedia to sound knowledgeable to prospective clients victims.  Trust me on this one.

What they DO know is that it's a somewhat trendy marketing pool. PTSD Vets and their alcohol/drug issues are getting a lot of press these days. However,  as so many of  the lawsuits and RipOff reports attest to - they are only interested in getting people there and their upfront, non-refundable fees.  They have no interest in actually "helping" or treating anyone.  To borrow Miss Fortune's analogy , they just create a Potemkin village - supply enough of a façade for inspectors to get licensed.

And yes the VA does provide help for ptsd, but many families choose private facilities for a variety of reasons.

But, I really don't know why I was so angry as it is just another case of taking advantage of a vulnerable person and family. ( with money).  It is after all, what they do.
When we remember that we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
-- Mark Twain

Offline BigBeard

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 06:57 »
I'm angry about it for multiple reasons.

First and foremost, the odds of someone ending up dead if PTSD is mishandled are exponentially greater than with the average narCONon victim. And too often a PTSD break ends up in a murder/suicide, not just a suicide.

Second, as a veteran myself, I am tired of scumbags trying to take advantage of people who put their lives on the line in the service of our country. They deserve better.

Third, I'm sick of the Cof$ in any of it's varies guises, making themselves self appointed experts on whatever they think might bring in a buck, with absolutely no training in the field at all.
BigBeard

Offline Suppressive Person

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2013, 08:53 »
Oh Beard, I am still angry too, probably because I have a personal connection to ptsd and understand the danger of misunderstanding and poor treatment more acutely than others.

I guess I was just trying to not minimize the vulnerability of their other targets as well.

 Under Wickstrom's "care", Amber Bullins was sick with her asthma and an active pulmonary infection when they gave her suboxone with alprazolam in her system. No doubt the primary cause of her death.  A man with seizures was left untreated and fell, resulting in a subdural hematoma.  Another man lit himself on fire during  unsupervised benzodiazepine withdrawal and probably had general psychiatric issues too.

And those young "uncooperative" clients with drug issues that they then drop off at crack hotels are in just as much danger as well.

These are just incidences I can recall as I write this reply. There are numerous other victims.

But I do agree, that ptsd is especially out of their league, not only in their "detox" but also treatment phase.  And to be perfectly frank, a stay at one his centers is more likely to CAUSE ptsd  than treat it.

I guess I should more accurately describe my feelings as not surprised, because marketing to the most desperate and vulnerable is their m.o.  And it has proved so profitable, why would they ever stop?
When we remember that we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
-- Mark Twain

Offline ethercat

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2013, 09:10 »
L. Ron Hubbard proclaimed that the Introspection Rundown was all that was needed to help anyone having a psychotic episode:
Wikipedia
WikiLeaks

Here is Hubbard's Introspection:
http://wlstorage.net/file/introspection.pdf

Isolate the person, just as source speaks of above, and do not speak to them, or speak within their hearing range, except while performing the auditing questions contained in the above document.

Here is some snippets of that document:
Quote
THE TECHNICAL BREAKTHROUGH OF 1973!
THE INTROSPECTION RD
I have made a technical breakthrough which possibly ranks with the major discoveries of the twentieth
century. It is certainly the greatest advancement of 1973 and is now being released after a final wrap-up of
research. It is called the Introspection Rundown.

Quote
In 1970 the actual cause of PSYCHOSIS was isolated (as given in HCOB 28 Nov. 70, C/S Series 22,
PSYCHOSIS). In the ensuing years this has been proven beyond doubt to be totally correct.

Quote
Man has never been able to solve the psychotic break. In fact, human beings are actually afraid of a
person in a psychotic break and in desperation turn to psychiatry to handle.

Psychiatry, desperate in its turn, without effective tech, resorts to barbarities such as heavy drugs, ice
picks, electric and insulin shock which half-kill the person and only suppress him. The fact remains there has
never been a cure for the psychotic break until now.

The key is WHAT CAUSED THE PERSON TO INTROSPECT BEFORE THE PSYCHOTIC
BREAK.

The breakthrough was made on a person who, after a series of wrong indications, went into a
full-blown psychotic break—violence, destruction and all.

The psychiatrist at this point would have sharpened up his ice pick, filled his syringes with the most
powerful (and deadly) drugs he could find and turned up the volts. His "handling" would have been a final
destruction of the individual.

What was done was an auditor went into the room, sat the person down and corrected the last severe
point of wrong indication. Subsequent times of wrong indication in his life were cleared up, the person came
out of the psychotic break and into present time.

THIS MEANS THE LAST REASON TO HAVE PSYCHIATRY AROUND IS GONE.

This is how Per Wickstrom, scientologist, will deal with any psychosis that emerges on his PTSD program.

The Introspection Rundown is also referred to as a "Baby Watch".  Searching those terms will get many, many hits, with some personal stories mixed in from people who experienced the Introspection Rundown firsthand, either as someone delivering it, or as someone receiving it.  Unfortunately, some did not survive to be able to tell their story - Lisa McPherson was not the only one, just the best known.

And now I'm going to hold my tongue because what I'm thinking is just not a good thing to say, or even think.

Thank you for your service to our country, BigBeard.
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Offline Suppressive Person

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2013, 09:54 »
Well, psychiatry is not an exact science to be sure, but psychiatry in the 1970's is a far cry from what we have today given our current mapping and understanding of the brain.

So I guess that is why people may have originally embraced some of Hubbard's crazy ideas out of sheer desperation.

But Hubbard was a criminal con man with a talent for writing science fiction. Didn't his own son testify to this a few decades ago?

Scientology's' baby watch' for psychosis sounds about as effective as Christian exorcism.

Seriously, knowing science as we do today, what's the difference between 'introspection" and a good sprinkle of 'holy water' with a strong belief in the "cure" ?
When we remember that we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
-- Mark Twain

Offline mefree

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2013, 21:55 »
Seriously, knowing science as we do today, what's the difference between 'introspection" and a good sprinkle of 'holy water' with a strong belief in the "cure" ?

Holy water and faith are less dangerous.
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Suppressive Person

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Re: OK. NOW I am angry ...
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2013, 04:59 »
Seriously, knowing science as we do today, what's the difference between 'introspection" and a good sprinkle of 'holy water' with a strong belief in the "cure" ?

Holy water and faith are less dangerous.

Agreed.
I guess another answer to my question would be: "Oh, about 25,000 dollars"
When we remember that we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
-- Mark Twain