Reaching For the Tipping Point

Narconon and Other Scientology Front Groups => Narconon in California => Topic started by: Hope on November 02, 2012, 23:20

Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Hope on November 02, 2012, 23:20
I am somewhat confused about this site.

I am searching for information on Narconon Fresh start program in Glendale, California.

I know some one who is currently there and have heard some unusual practices being used for therapy.

Is this a legitimate drug rehab program?

There was not much time to investigate this program before they entered.  All were desperate to just get them into a program.

Thanks,
 
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: mefree on November 03, 2012, 00:30
I am somewhat confused about this site.

I am searching for information on Narconon Fresh start program in Glendale, California.

I know some one who is currently there and have heard some unusual practices being used for therapy.

Is this a legitimate drug rehab program?

There was not much time to investigate this program before they entered.  All were desperate to just get them into a program.

Thanks,

Welcome to this forum, Hope. Narconon is a Scientology front group.

Narconon is a controversial international drug rehab program based on the philosophy and theories on drug addiction of L. Ron Hubbard, a science fiction writer and founder of the Church of Scientology. These theories appear to be ignorant of basic medical facts. Narconon’s ties to scientology are not readily available or disclosed to its clients who are making a decision on treatment for drug addiction at a vulnerable time in their lives. However, scientologists are employed by the centers and its doctrines and organization are similar to scientology.

Critics and former Narconon employees verify that Narconon is simply a front group for scientology with the purpose of making money and recruiting new members. Although Narconon is officially a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt non-profit organization, they are making a lot of  money.

Additional information is found at
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/
http://www.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/ (and in many other parts of this forum)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narconon
http://california-rehab-referral.com/
http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/Narconon.aspx

The mega-doses of vitamins and lengthy hours in sauna can be dangerous to anyone's health and especially someone with a substance abuse problem.

There have been three recent deaths at Narconon Arrowhead in Oklahoma, a 2008 death at Narconon of Georgia and many other reports of complaints and near misses.

If you or your friend's family decides to pick up your friend from Narconon, I would suggest contacting the Glendale police and asking them to meet you there. We have heard some reports of Narconon refusing to release patients to family members or friends. This is just a precaution.

I'm sure others will have more to say. I hope this is helpful and make sure you read the post on the next page.
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: ethercat on November 03, 2012, 00:36
Hello Hope, and welcome to Reaching for the Tipping Point.

I am somewhat confused about this site.

I am searching for information on Narconon Fresh start program in Glendale, California.

First, let me say that I can understand your confusion.  Narconon facilities sometimes (often) go by several different names for the same facility. 

It is my understanding that Narconon Fresh Start is the operating name for a corporation that runs several facilities, a sort of management organization for the individual facilities.  I believe Glendale is the location of the management, not one of the individual facilities, but I could be mistaken.

There's a list here of the facilities operated by Narconon Fresh Start (which was formerly called Narconon of Southern California: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,10168.msg27170.html#msg27170

The three in California are:
Sunshine Summit Lodge in San Diego (has also been called Narconon San Diego and Narconon Warner Springs)
Huntington Harbor House in Huntington Beach
JLB Ranch in San Diego

Quote
I know some one who is currently there and have heard some unusual practices being used for therapy.

Is this a legitimate drug rehab program?

Unfortunately, no, it is not.  The facilities listed above are licensed by the state, but the methods used by Narconon have more to do with Scientology training than with drug rehab or substance abuse.  Nothing in use at Narconon has been scientifically tested or recognized, and some practices can be dangerous.  Physically: the length of stay in the sauna and vitamin dosages.  Mentally: Scientology Training Routines or TRs for short.  Does the person you know have any medical conditions? 

All of the Narconons use the same methods, so information you find about the program itself goes for all Narconon facilities.  A very good resource for program information is the website Narconon Exposed: http://narconon-exposed.net/

Of course, with the various Narconons being run by different people, there will be some difference in management style, personalities, etc., but the program materials are standard to Narconon.

Quote
There was not much time to investigate this program before they entered.  All were desperate to just get them into a program.

Thanks,

I understand that; usually, either the people involved in putting someone in a drug/alcohol rehab are so glad the person has agreed to go, they want to make a decision before the person changes their mind; or the person has been court ordered into rehab and there's not much time given to do that before the person otherwise goes to jail.

In addition, it can be difficult to find other facilities without running into Narconon's "referral site" network, many of which pretend to be unbiased referral sites, but refer people primarily to Narconon for a commission. They have really worked the search engines to come up on top.

If you (or someone) decides to remove the person from Narconon, though, it is very important that you find somewhere for them to go instead, and soon.  If you'd like to tell us more about the situation, we might be able to make some recommendations as to how to best proceed.  However, it might be best to keep the details private, and if you want, I can enable personal messaging (PMs) for you if you'd like to speak privately.

Also, if you have any questions, feel free to ask, and we'll do our best to answer.   :)
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Witnessman on November 03, 2012, 11:53

The someone you know is in one of the very worst places that he or she could posibly be.  Narconon facilities are completely fraudulent and extremely unsafe. 

Therefore, please consider taking all proper and legal steps to have him or her rescued at the earliest possible time.  Definitely involve the police and/or courts if necessary.
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Hope on November 03, 2012, 16:26
Summit Lodge is the location and why is this place dangerous?

Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Hope on November 03, 2012, 16:38
Why would you consider these places to be dangerous? I'm familiar with the sauna detox and vitamins. 

Are there any benefits to their class room studies that I have read about? I have also read that the benefit from  the program won't be come clear until the end of the program.

There is a post below yours that indicates that the person should be removed immediately. What is the primary reason for this?
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: mefree on November 03, 2012, 16:43
Why would you consider these places to be dangerous? I'm familiar with the sauna detox and vitamins. 

Are there any benefits to their class room studies that I have read about? I have also read that the benefit from  the program won't be come clear until the end of the program.

There is a post below yours that indicates that the person should be removed immediately. What is the primary reason for this?

Did you read the Narconon Exposed site linked above in ethercat's post, or any information on this site?
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: who me? on November 03, 2012, 22:14
Why would you consider these places to be dangerous? I'm familiar with the sauna detox and vitamins.

Then you are aware that there is no scientific support for this method of detox, thus no benefit, however there is risk.  Potential risk of niacin induced liver damage (potentially permanent), especially if some liver damage is already present from substance abuse. Potential risk of dehydration and heat  exacerbating blood pressure problems. Since the program must be adhered to as written with no modification for individual differences, and there is not usually medical personnel in charge, the risk is not even properly mitigated.

Not sure what the substance(s) of abuse are, but stopping cold turkey is not safe for some drugs and recent heavy alcohol use.

The suggested sites would provide much more information then the quick synopsis above.
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Mary_McConnell on November 04, 2012, 01:15
I am somewhat confused about this site.

I am searching for information on Narconon Fresh start program in Glendale, California.

I know some one who is currently there and have heard some unusual practices being used for therapy.

Is this a legitimate drug rehab program?

There was not much time to investigate this program before they entered.  All were desperate to just get them into a program.

Thanks,


Summit Lodge is the location and why is this place dangerous?


Why would you consider these places to be dangerous? I'm familiar with the sauna detox and vitamins. 

Are there any benefits to their class room studies that I have read about? I have also read that the benefit from  the program won't be come clear until the end of the program.

There is a post below yours that indicates that the person should be removed immediately. What is the primary reason for this?

Hi Hope,

It sounds like you've gone and gotten further information from somewhere in between your postings here.

The program dangers are noted all over this forum and the internet.  People have died during the program. Others have gotten ill while on it. It can and has accelerated liver damage in some. people have had their medications taken away from them with out their consent...medicines for diabetes, high blood pressure and depression... the list is endless.

The course materials in the Narconon books are the exact materials scientologists study. The Narconon sauna part is actually the same  'spiritual' program used in Scientology called The Purification Rundown. All members are required to do it if they have taken any medicine or drugs. Even one aspirin. I was a member for 18 years and did the all the training routines and objectives used in the Narconon porogram and I did these as part of my Scientology Bridge. Narconon is a front group for Scientology. It is a bridge to the scientology bridge. You can see it on a Narconon promotional materials piece sent to members of Scientology
(http://alley.ethercat.com/storage/NarcononIsTheBridge.jpg)

This is the goal. Get People into Scientology through their front groups.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c0/Graphic_from_%22wise_at_work%22_magazine_issue_1_(2005)_p15._Published_by_WISE_(World_Institute_of_Scientology_Enterprises)._Incorporates_logos_of_various_Scientology-related_eneities.png/400px-thumbnail.png)

This forum exists to inform people of this and the front groups the church has.

On the Narconon program your friend will learn nothing about the reasons he abused alcohol or drugs; there will be no drug education, no therapy, no group therapy. He will not be allowed to talk about his problems to anyone and nothing will be offered for them except to get through the books. If he disagrees with the materials he will be sent to the ethics officer, who will make him redo the steps he was on while studying the materials, until he agrees with what Hubbard says. During this time he will learn not to question things. He will learn not to disagree. He will fear getting sent to the ethics officer. He'll be pressured to snitch on others, he'll have no 1:1 counseling from a licensed counselor, only another student, who he is made responsible for getting through the drills, and visa versa -  a 'twin'. The blind leading the blind. Like many, he may lie just to pass the steps he's on because you cannot proceed in the program unless you finish it to their satisfaction. But he may go along with the information and he's lost to his family. He'll become a scientologist and not even know it.

All of the materials in the course books is based upon Scientology 'scripture' and it's all aimed at getting Narconon students to become scientologists., act like scientologists and think like scientologists. Scientologists have a goal to clear the planet of people they deem unacceptable, by any means or method. Hubbard's draconian 'ethics' information, which your friend or loved one is going to be studying and is going to be made to do assignments with, is going to cause havoc with his views of family and friends and he will be told that the world is not same and he should come work for them ( for peanuts - a stipend ) when he graduates so he doesn't have to deal with the supressions and the people who generate them in the world. He'll start out on a 6 month agreement and eventually if he lasts there will then be urged to sign a 2.5 year or 5 year contract. He'll be a scientologist by then.

Read The Fix article, link below. It explains the con game.
http://www.thefix.com/content/narconons-big-con?page=all

Read the Narconon books 
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,9728.0.html

Compare the steps with Scientology's 'route' up their bridge.
http://www.smi.org/route/page24.htm

Try to visit Sunshine Summit Lodge and watch what happens. They don't want you there. Call the local sheriff. Ask about problems and calls coming from the facility. They get calls from parents and spouses asking for help in getting their loved ones out because Narconon won't let the 'student' leave.

I hope you understand that it requires some research and reading to know the dangers and I hope you avail yourself of all that is available. 

Ethercat's comment best explains what you should consider. Just taking someone out without a plan and another program will not be wise. There is also the issue of getting money back. This is a problematic issue for many. One should have an alternative place to take the person so he or she can get real help for the addiction. Even NA meeting and a local clinic are better than Narconon. Plan it and get him out if you can but be prepared that it will be a hassle getting a refund. Losing money in order to get a loved one out of a cult is usually worth it for most people.
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Hope on November 04, 2012, 09:21
We have been hearing all the things you have stated from the person in this program.

As you know drug addicts will sometimes say anything to leave a program.

Thanks for verifying all that we have been hearing!

Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: mefree on November 04, 2012, 09:33
As you know drug addicts will sometimes say anything to leave a program.

And Narconon will always play that card, when someone wants to leave, because they know it is common. As a result, many have hesitated to pull their loved one out of the program.

Mary and ethercat gave you some good advice on having a place ready before you pull your friend out. I want to reiterate that you should have the police meet you there, if you do so.
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: ethercat on November 04, 2012, 09:42
We have been hearing all the things you have stated from the person in this program.

As you know drug addicts will sometimes say anything to leave a program.

Narconon is aware of that, too, and uses it to their advantage to dispel concern by the addict's loved ones.  I am sure this must have a psychological effect on the person at Narconon too - even though they may have lied about things in the past, they are telling the truth this time, and no one believes them...  And a lot of it sounds unbelievable, outlandish in fact, so it's natural that the loved ones would think they are lying.  Hubbard, the founder of scientology noted this:

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 29 JULY 1963 (http://www.lermanet.com/barwell/ignorant-scoff.txt)
Quote
Incredulity of our data and validity. This is our finest asset and gives us more protection than any other single thing. If certain parties thought we were real we would have infinitely more trouble. There's actual terror in the breast of a guilty person at the thought of OT, and without a public incredulity we never would have gotten as far as we have. And now it's too late to be stopped. This protection was accidental but it serves us very well indeed. Remember that the next time the ignorant scoff.

Since you've now said the facility is Sunshine Summit Lodge, here's a thread specifically about that one, if you haven't read it already:
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,8697.0.html

That thread begins with discussion of an inspection done by California authorities at Sunshine Summit Lodge, and the actual inspection report is linked in the thread: http://alley.ethercat.com/storage/Narconon/Narconon_San_Diego_Notice_of_Deficiency-2011-09-14.pdf

Quote
Thanks for verifying all that we have been hearing!

You are welcome!  Glad to help!
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Witnessman on November 04, 2012, 10:06
That is one outstandingly excellent overview by the amazingly awesome Mary McConnell.

Let me add just a couple of thoughts.

First, (this may be a somewhat inaccurate genaralization): The people working at a Narconon facilities really do not have much, if any, real concern for the well-being of the unfortunate            patients students prospective cult-inductees who just happen to be there.  Instead, such unfortunates are simply "bodies in the shop"... statistics and sources of almighty revenue.  If the people working there do actually happen to have some concern for the well-being of the unfortunates, the same is completely secondary and incidental to their brain-washed and absolutely slavish devotion to the greater objectives of Narconon and Scientology.

Second, most or all Narconon facilities are inherently dangerous for two other seperate, but very much related reasons: 
The Narconon program (which is the exactly the same worldwide) is garbage, a random figment of a deranged mad-man's very vivid and fertile imagination.  It has no scientific or medical basis whatsoever and has never ever, anywhere been endorsed or approved by any reputable source whatsoever.  It is a total, unmitigated FRAUD.

Because of this, and the fact that (again) one the true purposes of Narconon (in addition to the almight revenue purpose) is the induction into Scientology purpose, many of the worker bees will be "graduates" of the program who are still very much addicts.  As such, the unfortunate cult-inductees will likely be in a cesspool of active drug abuse that is actually worse and (as many pending lawsuits are in the process of proving beyond any trace of doubt) often much, much worse than whatever thier situations were in the real world.  This is the probably the primary reason for most of the deaths.
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: mefree on November 04, 2012, 10:20
Quote
The Narconon program (which is the exactly the same worldwide) is garbage, a random figment of a deranged mad-man's very vivid and fertile imagination.  It has no scientific or medical basis whatsoever and has never ever, anywhere been endorsed or approved by any reputable source whatsoever.  It is a total, unmitigated FRAUD.

Because of this, and the fact that (again) one the true purposes of Narconon (in addition to the almight revenue purpose) is the induction into Scientology purpose, many of the worker bees will be "graduates" of the program who are still very much addicts.  As such, the unfortunate cult-inductees will likely be in a cesspool of active drug abuse that is actually worse and (as many pending lawsuits are in the process of proving beyond any trace of doubt) often much, much worse than whatever thier situations were in the real world.  This is the probably the primary reason for most of the deaths.

So, true! All reports indicate that drug use is rampant at Narconon - a very dangerous situation for anyone entering treatment. However, we shouldn't ignore the very real dangers of the sauna (Up to 5 hours in sauna per day) and as much as 5 grams of Niacin/day are dangerous to one's health. These can lead to heat stroke and liver damage or other medical conditions. 
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Cigul on November 04, 2012, 10:32
Welcome, Hope. I was at Sunshine Summit as both student and staff. Specifically, I worked with new students and their families. I want to verify everything that has been posted thus far, as well as adding that I KNOW, straight from the source I know, that NarCONon staff will tell you any lie and go to any length to keep your loved one there. For them, it's not about what is best for the student. It's about their crazy statistics. But most of all, and I cannot stress this enough, it's about the money. I would be happy to answer any questions you might have. Feel free to PM me.
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Mary_McConnell on November 04, 2012, 11:06
Welcome, Hope. I was at Sunshine Summit as both student and staff. Specifically, I worked with new students and their families. I want to verify everything that has been posted thus far, as well as adding that I KNOW, straight from the source I know, that NarCONon staff will tell you any lie and go to any length to keep your loved one there. For them, it's not about what is best for the student. It's about their crazy statistics. But most of all, and I cannot stress this enough, it's about the money. I would be happy to answer any questions you might have. Feel free to PM me.

Thank you, Cigul :)

Hope, take a look at this article and complaint, and see how the staff lied to the mother of the 'student'.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120818_11_A1_StateD435534

Letter recounts death at Narconon Arrowhead | Tulsa World

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120818_11_A1_StateD435534

Complaint
http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/content/items/NarcononComplaint.pdf

The story was reported earlier here
Narconon Arrowhead is a Deadly Place
http://narconon.blogspot.com/2011/11/narconon-oklahoma-is-deadly-place.html
Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Mary_McConnell on November 04, 2012, 11:09
That is one outstandingly excellent overview by the amazingly awesome Mary McConnell.

Let me add just a couple of thoughts.

First, (this may be a somewhat inaccurate genaralization): The people working at a Narconon facilities really do not have much, if any, real concern for the well-being of the unfortunate            patients students prospective cult-inductees who just happen to be there.  Instead, such unfortunates are simply "bodies in the shop"... statistics and sources of almighty revenue.  If the people working there do actually happen to have some concern for the well-being of the unfortunates, the same is completely secondary and incidental to their brain-washed and absolutely slavish devotion to the greater objectives of Narconon and Scientology.

Second, most or all Narconon facilities are inherently dangerous for two other seperate, but very much related reasons: 
The Narconon program (which is the exactly the same worldwide) is garbage, a random figment of a deranged mad-man's very vivid and fertile imagination.  It has no scientific or medical basis whatsoever and has never ever, anywhere been endorsed or approved by any reputable source whatsoever.  It is a total, unmitigated FRAUD.

Because of this, and the fact that (again) one the true purposes of Narconon (in addition to the almight revenue purpose) is the induction into Scientology purpose, many of the worker bees will be "graduates" of the program who are still very much addicts.  As such, the unfortunate cult-inductees will likely be in a cesspool of active drug abuse that is actually worse and (as many pending lawsuits are in the process of proving beyond any trace of doubt) often much, much worse than whatever thier situations were in the real world.  This is the probably the primary reason for most of the deaths.

Thanks, Witnessman :) And thanks for the additional comments. It's sometimes hard for the general public to grok the lunacy of L Ron Hubbard and the deception of his organization and its front groups. Most understand it when they experience the effects of it. I don't hold out hope for Hope on this. Her mind is already set.

Title: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: ethercat on November 04, 2012, 11:45
I don't hold out hope for Hope on this. Her mind is already set.

I'm not so sure of that, Mary.

We have been hearing all the things you have stated from the person in this program.

As you know drug addicts will sometimes say anything to leave a program.

Thanks for verifying all that we have been hearing!

I think she just thought the person in Narconon was making it all up, and now realizes that they weren't.  Am I right, Hope?

And thanks for your comments too, Witnessman.  You are right on target. 
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: ethercat on November 04, 2012, 11:50
Moderator note: I split this off into its own topic; hope it doesn't confuse anyone in finding it again.
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: mefree on November 04, 2012, 12:13
Wow! Narconon really knows how to put on a show, don't they?

Watch this video: http://youtu.be/nhttSbOAZHk

Sounds good, doesn't it?

Narconon fails to mention that each student is required to do a "success story" prior to graduation. Most are willing to do anything to get out of there, if they haven't agreed to the recruitment. Notice one young man in the video is talking about working for Narconon, already.

Hearing each one of them say that they wanted to leave, but now they are glad they stayed is powerful stuff for a family member or friend. Complaints may fall on deaf ears.

I wonder how scripted these success stories are? I noticed several of the students said very similar things.

Maybe Cigul could weigh in on this.
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: ethercat on November 04, 2012, 22:19
I wonder how scripted these success stories are? I noticed several of the students said very similar things.

Maybe Cigul could weigh in on this.

Not Cigul, and I would like to hear what s/he has to say on this too, but in my opinion, when the "students" are being drilled on the same things, in the same way, that is, slowly being turned into a scientology robot, I imagine they would possibly say the similar things without any coaching.  They learn from the others what it takes to finish up and get out of the program - unless, of course, it's such a drug paradise there that they don't want to leave. 

We have heard many times about drug use in the Narconon facilities, seems to be consistent across the board, not limited to one or a few Narconons.  There's even court evidence of that in the Desmond case.
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: mefree on November 05, 2012, 06:15
I wonder how scripted these success stories are? I noticed several of the students said very similar things.

Maybe Cigul could weigh in on this.

Not Cigul, and I would like to hear what s/he has to say on this too, but in my opinion, when the "students" are being drilled on the same things, in the same way, that is, slowly being turned into a scientology robot, I imagine they would possibly say the similar things without any coaching.  They learn from the others what it takes to finish up and get out of the program - unless, of course, it's such a drug paradise there that they don't want to leave. 

We have heard many times about drug use in the Narconon facilities, seems to be consistent across the board, not limited to one or a few Narconons.  There's even court evidence of that in the Desmond case.

Good point, ethercat. By the end of the program, they've already been drilled. No coaching is needed.
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: CoolHand on November 05, 2012, 07:32

...when the "students" are being drilled on the same things, in the same way, that is, slowly being turned into a scientology robot...

This is very true.  I was struck when I saw Niko Bain's interview for Arrowhead, for example.  He was saying some of the EXACT same things I was saying when I was a young/fresh/eager drug education speaker 12 years ago.  The verbiage is learned, the atmosphere is one of conditioning.  It does become a survival mechanism for students on the program and then for those who become staff it's like a way of getting recognized/rewarded for being "on board".
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Cigul on November 05, 2012, 19:06
Exactly. Further drilling is completely unnecessary. By the time graduation roles around, whether genuine or not, each student has become an expert in writing a success story that reflects exactly what staff are looking for. It is precisely a matter of conditioning. I can also add that, prior to any graduation that was going to be filmed, staff would sit the graduates down and remind them of what would be considered acceptable and what would not. Most students, nervous about graduating and nervous about being filmed, would solicit input and final approval on what they planned to say. So staff did have editorial privileges, let's just say.

I personally knew all four of the gentlemen in that particular grad video. And I believe that they were sincere in what they said. But here's the real tragedy: 75% success rate? Try a 75% relapse rate. At least. Because the reality is that all the sauna pseudoscience and all the TR's and Objectives and all the L. Ron hocus-pocus in the world simply does NOT translate into real drug rehabilitation. As the saying goes...a cat can have kittend in the oven, but that don't make 'em biscuits. Tragic.
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: mefree on November 05, 2012, 22:12
Another recent complaint from Ripoff Report about Sunshine Summit Lodge:

Submitted: Saturday, November 03, 2012
Posted: Saturday, November 03, 2012
Reported By: lucylou — newport Kentucky United States of America

Quote
I'm not going to repeat everyone's stories Ive read about narconon. Its horrible! Im a very thorough person but when my son came to me and wanted help, I became emotional and against my better judgement let these people snow me. It started with a "referral" site was suppose to be independent of any rehab programs. Long story short as soon as my son got to the center after his non medical detox he was sent to the center in warner springs california, called sunshine summit lodge, narconon fresh start. Everything these people told me on the phone were complete and utter lies!!! the brochure made it look so nice. They said had the best medical staff at this site with the best doctors and nurses. They have NO medical staff there.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/narconon-fresh-start/consumer-services/warner-springs-california-3c005.htm
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Sunshine on November 07, 2012, 20:51
It appears that ADP has been busy; Narconon Fresh Start Sunshine Summit got busted for running not one, not two but THREE unlicensed facilities in Sunshine Summit (Warner Springs).

I believe the Barn is located on Narconon JLB ranch property, the Big House is west of the general store and the Top House is located on a hill behind the main lodge, maybe Cigul can comment.

The Barn
35955 Highway 79
Warner Springs, CA 92086
License Number: Unlicensed Facility
Cease and Desist Issued: September 6, 2012

The Big House
35422 Highway 79
Warner Springs, CA 92087
License Number: Unlicensed Facility
Cease and Desist Issued: September 6, 2012

 The Top House
35025 Highway 79
Warner Springs, CA 92086
License Number: Unlicensed Facility
Cease and Desist Issued: September 6, 2012

http://www.adp.cahwnet.gov/Licensing/pdf/Suspended_and_Revoked_Programs.pdf
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: mefree on November 07, 2012, 21:41
It appears that ADP has been busy; Narconon Fresh Start Sunshine Summit got busted for running not one, not two but THREE unlicensed facilities in Sunshine Summit (Warner Springs).

I believe the Barn is located on Narconon JLB ranch property, the Big House is west of the general store and the Top House is located on a hill behind the main lodge, maybe Cigul can comment.

The Barn
35955 Highway 79
Warner Springs, CA 92086
License Number: Unlicensed Facility
Cease and Desist Issued: September 6, 2012

The Big House
35422 Highway 79
Warner Springs, CA 92087
License Number: Unlicensed Facility
Cease and Desist Issued: September 6, 2012

 The Top House
35025 Highway 79
Warner Springs, CA 92086
License Number: Unlicensed Facility
Cease and Desist Issued: September 6, 2012

http://www.adp.cahwnet.gov/Licensing/pdf/Suspended_and_Revoked_Programs.pdf

Wow! Thanks for the news, Sunshine.
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Cigul on November 08, 2012, 13:08
YES! Oh I have been waiting for them to get busted with those three people mills! You are correct, Sunshine, about the locations. And there are two more in addition. "The Blue House" which is also in the general location of the general store and another directly across the road from the office.
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: mefree on November 08, 2012, 23:50
YES! Oh I have been waiting for them to get busted with those three people mills! You are correct, Sunshine, about the locations. And there are two more in addition. "The Blue House" which is also in the general location of the general store and another directly across the road from the office.

I love your sig, Cigul.
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: who me? on November 09, 2012, 00:55
YES! Oh I have been waiting for them to get busted with those three people mills! You are correct, Sunshine, about the locations. And there are two more in addition. "The Blue House" which is also in the general location of the general store and another directly across the road from the office.
If you have not yet done so, it would be great if you could contact the ADP and provide the addresses and other info you have about these locations. I have found them to be helpful on these requests/complaints.
Complaint form: http://www.adp.cahwnet.gov/feedback/Form-ComplaintADP.shtml
Or just scroll down to the "contact us" link at the bottom and email them with an inquiry.
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Sunshine on November 09, 2012, 10:26
Quote
YES! Oh I have been waiting for them to get busted with those three people mills! You are correct, Sunshine, about the locations. And there are two more in addition. "The Blue House" which is also in the general location of the general store and another directly across the road from the office.

Where there clients living in the Blue House and accross the street?
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Cigul on November 09, 2012, 16:58
For a fact there were and I'm sure still are students living in the blue house. The house across the street was staff/interns only while I was there. However, they abide by no rules regarding that sort of thing; the house up the hill was also designated staff/interns but had staff/interns/students all living together. So who knows? But again, definitely at the blue house.
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: BigBeard on November 11, 2012, 13:07
WOW! ||O||

This could get interesting when the IRS gets wind of the fact this 'exempt' organization has been operating unlicensed facilities.  8:O8P|()  I hope.

Wonder what the back-lash, if any, will be on narCONon Int allowing one of their subordinate (per the Closing Agreement/GEN: 2595) organizations to operate illegally this way??

Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 29, 2013, 22:38
For a fact there were and I'm sure still are students living in the blue house. The house across the street was staff/interns only while I was there. However, they abide by no rules regarding that sort of thing; the house up the hill was also designated staff/interns but had staff/interns/students all living together. So who knows? But again, definitely at the blue house.

Thank you, Cigul. Always helpful to have first hand observations like this .
Title: Re: Narconon Fresh Start/Sunshine Summit Lodge (was:Re: Nathan Baca Investigates Narconon)
Post by: Mary_McConnell on June 13, 2015, 09:59
Update : This information may have been posted in other threads but the link posted earlier above has changed. ADP is no longer the name of the agency in charge of licensing and oversight for programs. CA  Department of Health Care Services is the agency. Here is where one can go to get updated information on licensed and revoked or suspended program. Since this site is so hard to find things on, I suggest anyone wanting to get current information would do well to bookmark the following links


Latest Facility licensing and revocation pdf's Go to link, scroll down and look at Resources. See Residential & Outpatient Licensed and/or Certified Facilities List and the  Suspended/Revoked Residential & Outpatient Facilities List 
http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/provgovpart/Pages/FacilityLicensing.aspx

Suspended/Revoked Residential & Outpatient Facilities List( latest as of 4/14/14)
http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/provgovpart/Documents/Suspended_and_Revoked_Programs.pdf

Residential & Outpatient Licensed and/or Certified Facilities List  Latest as of 02/11/15
http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/Documents/Status_Report_February_2015_ada.pdf

They use the same pdf named links whenever they update if but if you Google search these things you will find earlier versions posted on their site, confusing the matter further. Best to bookmark their page with the Resources listing current pdfs by date