Reaching For the Tipping Point

Narconon and Other Scientology Front Groups => Narconon and related groups => Topic started by: CoolHand on January 01, 2013, 14:36

Title: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 01, 2013, 14:36
I mentioned this on one of the year-end posts at Tony Ortega's Underground Bunker, but figured I'd announce it here.  I've been working on a new book, entitled "Have You Told All?" ( http://www.haveyoutoldall.com ) about my time inside Narconon and Scientology and all of the interrelated activities I was involved with for 12 years spanning from Clearwater to Los Angeles and many other places around the country like Georgia, Massachusetts, Washington, D.C., Michigan, Oklahoma, Kansas and more.

There are many, many details that continue to come to light for me as being significant and I am trying to put them together into something that will be valuable to others in terms of insight to the overall scam.  A lot of it will be about the day-to-day connection between Narconon and Scientology that, while many of us widely promote, has still gone fairly unidentified in the general public's eye because of repeated denials by Narconon and Scientology individually.  I mean orders taken, people schmoozed (government and media, etc.), confidentiality rights compromised by Narconon and church executives, fraud, big $, celebrity involvement and much more.

It is very much a work in progress, and I hope to finish by March.  There is just so much.  As I go I'll look to post snippets on this thread.  I'd appreciate any stories, information or specific connections that you feel might be more beneficial.  It also helps unlock some of the memories of things as I go along.

Thanks for everything you guys and gals do here,

Luke
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: snippy on January 01, 2013, 14:41
This sounds great Lucas. Looking forward to the snippets and discussions.

Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: mefree on January 01, 2013, 17:18
I saw that on Tony's blog and hoped you would post here. Fantastic news!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 01, 2013, 23:07
Thanks snippy and mefree, and Happy New Year as well!  2013 is definitely going to be interesting.
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: SocialTransparency on January 02, 2013, 08:57
I mentioned this on one of the year-end posts at Tony Ortega's Underground Bunker, but figured I'd announce it here.  I've been working on a new book, entitled "Have You Told All?" ( http://www.haveyoutoldall.com ) about my time inside Narconon and Scientology and all of the interrelated activities I was involved with for 12 years spanning from Clearwater to Los Angeles and many other places around the country like Georgia, Massachusetts, Washington, D.C., Michigan, Oklahoma, Kansas and more.

There are many, many details that continue to come to light for me as being significant and I am trying to put them together into something that will be valuable to others in terms of insight to the overall scam.  A lot of it will be about the day-to-day connection between Narconon and Scientology that, while many of us widely promote, has still gone fairly unidentified in the general public's eye because of repeated denials by Narconon and Scientology individually.  I mean orders taken, people schmoozed (government and media, etc.), confidentiality rights compromised by Narconon and church executives, fraud, big $, celebrity involvement and much more.

It is very much a work in progress, and I hope to finish by March.  There is just so much.  As I go I'll look to post snippets on this thread.  I'd appreciate any stories, information or specific connections that you feel might be more beneficial.  It also helps unlock some of the memories of things as I go along.

Thanks for everything you guys and gals do here,

Luke
Fantastic announcement CL. |\/|8-P
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: who me? on January 02, 2013, 13:49
Good on you!
Hoping for a good read (snippets here ooo} and eventually the book |\/|8-P).
Getting it all out will hopefully be cathartic for you, and I am sure will make scn and nn quite uncomfortable.  :-thanks-:
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 03, 2013, 14:37
Cathartic, yes.  Especially since I used to do so much writing FOR Narconon.  In fact, I just got emailed a New Year's article that I wrote for Arrowhead back in December of '05 (as seen here: http://www.i-newswire.com/a-new-year-s-resolution-to-stop/a52938) that they are still using and sending seven years later.  I'm such an awful person that they still use my work.  Hmmm.....Correction I initially wrote it in Dec 2004 - eight years ago, as I found other online examples dated back then.

I'm also getting some behind-the-scenes information from other Narconon people that are helping with the revelation process of the book.  It should be very eye-opening.
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: BMF on January 03, 2013, 14:47
Cathartic, yes.  Especially since I used to do so much writing FOR Narconon.  In fact, I just got emailed a New Year's article that I wrote for Arrowhead back in December of '05 (as seen here: http://www.i-newswire.com/a-new-year-s-resolution-to-stop/a52938) that they are still using and sending seven years later.  I'm such an awful person that they still use my work.  Hmmm.....Correction I initially wrote it in Dec 2004 - eight years ago, as I found other online examples dated back then.

I'm also getting some behind-the-scenes information from other Narconon people that are helping with the revelation process of the book.  It should be very eye-opening.

I plead the fifth.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 03, 2013, 15:05
I plead the fifth.

 L-O-: oOoToOo5
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: BigBeard on January 03, 2013, 15:35
Fifth of what? If it's the good stuff I want a shot!

Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: BMF on January 03, 2013, 17:06
Fifth of what? If it's the good stuff I want a shot!

Deal!
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: mefree on January 03, 2013, 18:05
I plead the fifth.

 L-O-: oOoToOo5

 :){}{}{}
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: Mary_McConnell on January 04, 2013, 08:33
Keep it coming, Luke and friends!!

2013 is already a very exciting year. The year of many revelations and books on Scientology and Narconon!!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 06, 2013, 16:25
Ok, here is a tiny pre-editing tidbit from one of the many stories relating Tom Cruise to Narconon Arrowhead:

"During this time Gary Smith got a call from Celebrity Centre International to fly immediately to New York City.  Tom Cruise was filming War of the Worlds near there and wanted Gary to come along and help talk about Narconon to someone on the set.  Since JT Daily was the Director of Drug Education for Arrowhead at the time and was in New York already, Gary mentioned having him be present as well.  Gary and JT were picked up by a helicopter in NYC and brought to the set, where they met with Tom in a private trailer and spoke with him and the other person in secrecy.  Both Gary and JT were forced to sign bonded agreements to not identify who they were meeting with.  Looking back, this is very ironic since the church repeatedly violated the confidentiality of Narconon clients, but I guess whatever Tom Cruise wants, the church delivers."

As I continue writing, I am continually reminded of things like this and so much more.  This isn't even close to the juicy stuff, in my opinion, just a little-known fact.
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: wynot on January 06, 2013, 21:14
What I found interesting about your story is less that Tom Cruise thinks the world revolves around him, and the cult is happy to play to that delusion, than the extremely subservient  behaviour by high-ranking NN staff towards CoB's li'l buddy! But NarCONon is only a distant relation of the church, eh? :-D^\^\

I am really looking forward to reading your book when it is finished, so I'll pass along the advice given by SF master Robert Heinlein to a young writer: apply butt to chair - and write! (Or type, for us post-computer-revolution generationals...)

'til next time;
wynot
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 07, 2013, 09:47
Yes, the delusion runs deep.  Here is another peek:

"Following the meeting of the Science Advisory Board at Arrowhead in early 2002, one of the first orders of importance to really bring Narconon to the forefront of the drug rehabilitation field in the 21st century was to have an updated, formalized outcome study completed of the program results.  After all, it was widely known internally that the 76% success rate Narconon claimed was bullshit.  In fact, at one point even the retention rate of Arrowhead fell below 50%, meaning that more than half the people who enrolled in the program left without completing it.  There was a whole series of steps written up to improve the retention rate and technical delivery before any outcome study would have even been considered.

"Rena Weinberg and Clark Carr were keen on getting Thomas McLellan to be the lead author of the Narconon outcome study.  They wanted something that was legitimate and wanted to get the best.  McLellan is a well-known psychologist in the addiction field and is the founder of the Treatment Research Institute as well as the person who created the Addiction Severity Index (ASI).  The ASI is an industry standard tool for assessment used in the treatment field.  While there was a lot of talk about McLellan and there was some initial discussion with him, he ultimately backed out because he didn't want to be associated with Narconon.  Turns out he made other good career moves, as he was appointed to be the Deputy Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) years later under the Obama Administration.

"To this date, a formal outcome study has still never been done on the Narconon program at any center, and they continue to lie about their success rate.  Narconon, ABLE and the church of Scientology are fully aware that the program doesn't get the results they claim, and are thus committing fraud daily."
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: snippy on January 07, 2013, 10:14
McLellan is amazing! I just posted a link to his keynote address at the NZ Drug conference here somewhere. Here it is again below. Real scientists clue in their bs pretty quick. It's kind of sad/funny that Narconon even considered snowing McLellan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofJ8Zpk1J8M

Interesting about their discussions behind the scenes about their success rate. How do they sleep at night.
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: Mary_McConnell on January 07, 2013, 10:24
Wow... your book is going cause lots of waves!!
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: who me? on January 07, 2013, 11:23
Wow... your book is going cause lots of waves!!
Should make for some fine surfing! ;D
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 07, 2013, 11:46
What I found interesting about your story is less that Tom Cruise thinks the world revolves around him, and the cult is happy to play to that delusion, than the extremely subservient  behaviour by high-ranking NN staff towards CoB's li'l buddy! But NarCONon is only a distant relation of the church, eh? :-D^\^\

I am really looking forward to reading your book when it is finished, so I'll pass along the advice given by SF master Robert Heinlein to a young writer: apply butt to chair - and write! (Or type, for us post-computer-revolution generationals...)

'til next time;
wynot

Yes, wynot, that is the most common theme throughout - just exactly how involved Scientology really is when it comes to running Narconon, including many specific examples of giving orders directly from various church organizations affecting Narconon management, promotion and program delivery.
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: BMF on January 07, 2013, 11:58
Absolutely true!!!  Scientology owns the Arrowhead building after all.  Goes to show that even with all their influence on the day to day they still have people dying in their facilities and their success rate is no better (maybe even worse) than most others.
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: Mary_McConnell on January 07, 2013, 15:19
Wow... your book is going cause lots of waves!!
Should make for some fine surfing! ;D
;D
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 09, 2013, 19:17
A little-known fact from my first trip to LA as a Scientologist in 2001:

"One day I was getting coffee at the canteen below one of the buildings and was approached by another young man who was wearing a regular suit instead of a Sea Org uniform.  His name was Brandon and he kept eyeballing me before finally approaching. 

"He was short and had dark, slicked-back hair.  His smile was something that sticks with me to this day as a characteristic of many Scientologists I met over time - one of judgment because they feel they know more than you by having the secrets to the universe and are therefore above you in some way. 

"After basic introductions and finding out why I was there, etc. he started in with this really secretive-sounding sales pitch.  He was a Sea Org recruiter, specifically for Bridge Publications...

"...During the next couple of days Brandon and Blake courted me heavily, introducing me to a few young, blonde Sea Org women close to my age, taking me out to lunch, driving around to see other parts of Los Angeles, and generally trying to make me feel very welcome.

"I eventually agreed that I would do it, and went along with their plan and signed the billion-year contract.  I began routing in up to just before the point where I would have started what is called the Estates Project Force (EPF), which is basically Sea Org boot camp.  In order to do that, there were several things that had to be taken care of...

"...Blake and Brandon walked me around to various people to get them to sign off their portions of the form, and by that night, we got to the person who oversaw the EPF, where I was supposed to be officially welcomed into the Sea Org.  Fittingly, we were standing under a big banner that carried the Sea Org motto "We Come Back", as I was there believing that I had been involved in Scientology before this lifetime.  This woman looked at me, asked what was going on, Brandon answered for me and she completed the initiation, indicating that my next step on the form was to report to the person in charge of new arrivals.

"Thankfully, I never got any further on that routing form and caught my plane the next morning back to Oklahoma."
Title: Re: Have You Told All?
Post by: BMF on January 09, 2013, 19:37
Every time I got recruited I just said "I took LSD" and they went away.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 09, 2013, 19:42
Every time I got recruited I just said "I took LSD" and they went away.

 ;D
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on January 09, 2013, 21:33
 :-D^\^\
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on January 09, 2013, 22:29
 <--:D-->
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: BMF on January 09, 2013, 22:50
Quick question about the billion year thing.  Has there been any documented cases of a sea org member dying and coming back to get back on staff again?
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 09, 2013, 23:21
Publicly documented? Not that I'm aware of.  Anectodal?  Yes.  Bobby Wiggins told me a story of a kid who lived in one of the houses on L. Ron Hubbard Blvd who claimed he was an executive who had returned.  I don't actually personally know of any particular story where someone was able to pick up on The Bridge where they believed they left off last lifetime (even so-called past-life Clears were "un-Cleared" and made to redo their steps).  That's a whole other section to the book that I do plan to address though!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: BMF on January 10, 2013, 07:52
ive heard the stories from shit talker wiggins too.  The one about the OTs going on top of the Fort Harrison when a hurricane was surely about to hit and them getting in comm with it and telling it to go somewhere else and then they were magically spared while other parts got hit was the best though.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on January 10, 2013, 09:08
ive heard the stories from shit talker wiggins too.  The one about the OTs going on top of the Fort Harrison when a hurricane was surely about to hit and them getting in comm with it and telling it to go somewhere else and then they were magically spared while other parts got hit was the best though.

Haha!!

(http://sitakali.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/bullshit1.jpg)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 10, 2013, 09:16
Too funny!  Wiggins also told me that there was an Olympic athlete on deck of the Apollo one time and that LRH wanted to race him from one end to the other, to prove that an OT really was cause over his body.  Miraculously, Hubbard won! (or so the story went)  ::)  Yes, lots of BS stories out there.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: BMF on January 10, 2013, 09:53
The Olympic person was from Lieslovia. 
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on January 10, 2013, 16:11
Really looking forward to your book, Luke.

I may well write one someday... on how to not get ripped off while trying to  find and pay for an appropriate rehab for a loved one ;D
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: BMF on January 10, 2013, 16:57
I want a signed copy of both.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on January 10, 2013, 17:08
Too funny!  Wiggins also told me that there was an Olympic athlete on deck of the Apollo one time and that LRH wanted to race him from one end to the other, to prove that an OT really was cause over his body.  Miraculously, Hubbard won! (or so the story went)  ::)  Yes, lots of BS stories out there.
Wiggins sure seems delusional in some of his Narconon videos.
http://youtu.be/fhahgsLqTow
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on January 10, 2013, 17:30
I want a signed copy of both.

 ;D
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 10, 2013, 20:51
Really looking forward to your book, Luke.

I may well write one someday... on how to not get ripped off while trying to  find and pay for an appropriate rehab for a loved one ;D

Thanks!  You could also write one alone about all of the court cases you've seen throughout the years, the refunds, ex-employees, confidential informants (without revealing them, of course) and more. You have a unique position in this whole evolution too.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 10, 2013, 20:55
I want a signed copy of both.

Of course! In the digital age though, it may have to be handing you the file over a cup of coffee or something.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 14, 2013, 21:52
"The Church of Scientology Celebrity Centre International holds its annual gala in August.  It is a way for it to show off its accomplishments to friends and guests and is also used as a Hollywood recruiting tool.  In August of 2003 there was an extra display set up at CC Int that was sort of like an L. Ron Hubbard mini life exhibition, which had large panels detailing the various parts.

"I was asked to be stationed at the Narconon panel to explain what Narconon does to all of the guests that would be touring through.  Additional panels included ones for other ABLE groups and other aspects of Dianetics and Scientology, including an e-meter demonstration.  I had to be there hours before the actual event started, which was mostly a black tie affair.

"I had been hanging out and talking with Bob Adams, who is a former NFL football player and had recently joined the Sea Org as the Vice President of ABLE at the time.  We had been talking about steroids and were given a binder with pictures of dignitaries and prominent Hollywood people that were expected to attend.  Below each picture was a short description of who they were and what they did, so that we knew to watch out for them and ensure that they really got extra attention coming through the displays...

"...Susan Watson was the President of CC Int then, and she was the host for the event.  As I stood there I saw Dr. Alfonso Paredes and his wife and said hello.  I had met them before when they came out to Arrowhead.  He was the retired psychiatrist and professor from UCLA who was on Narconon's Science Advisory Board.  He wasn't a Scientologist, but his son was, and I was told that the only way his son was allowed to do Scientology services was if he handled his dad to not practice psychiatry anymore, not advocate for psychiatric drugs, and to do something in support of Scientology activities, which is how  the Narconon bit came about.  Paredes later wrote a short program evaluation (http://www.narcononarrowhead.org/program/psychiatric-review/) in September of that year that is still used to this day to show parents, family members and others that Narconon was psychiatrically reviewed, but of course they leave out the part of his connection to Scientology.  The fact is that very few people endorse Narconon or anything Scientology related without a connection of some sort."
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: snippy on January 14, 2013, 23:40
Quote
the only way his son was allowed to do Scientology services was if he handled his dad to not practice psychiatry anymore, not advocate for psychiatric drugs, and to do something in support of Scientology activities

"Handling" him sounds more like "blackmailing" him, i.e. if his dad didn't do this, the son would disconnect from him. Must have been hell for the dad, a psychiatrist who couldn't un-brainwash his own son and then be coerced to compromise his integrity.  Another gem, Cool Hand.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 24, 2013, 23:49
Past the 50,000 word mark, unedited, and still going strong.  Will look for something to post again soon.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on January 25, 2013, 07:14
Past the 50,000 word mark, unedited, and still going strong.  Will look for something to post again soon.

Go, Luke!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 25, 2013, 22:27
(On going through part of the program)

"Book 4B is about Objective processes.  These are actual Scientology auditing procedures.  The book even uses and defines the term auditor in the Scientological sense of "one who listens."  Students are taught how to create Session Report Forms and take notes just like in a church, as well as get an "exam" after each auditing session, which is simply someone looking at the person and noting his or her facial and body indicators since there are no e-meters.

"Students are twinned up again, where one is the student in session doing the objective processes and the other is the auditor, who asks the questions or give the commands and notes down the reactions and remarks from the student.  Rather than doing it back and forth like most, I had one guy run me through all of them.  I believe there were eleven, with number six having three parts.  Each objective process could last anywhere from a few minutes all the way to several days.

"They would include commands such as "Look around here and find something you could permit from going away," followed by "Did you keep it from going away?".  There were all kinds of them.  Objective number five includes walking around a table with the auditor saying "Touch that table.  Thank you.  Touch your [indicates body part]".  This would continue for hours and include sexual parts after a while (called aberrated body parts in the book).

"Overall it took me about two weeks to complete my Objectives, and then I had to run someone else on them, a guy named Todd.  What I didn't know at the time was that Todd was sexually abused by his step-father.  So later on into it I'm running him on Objective number five and start telling him "Touch that table. Thank you.  Touch your penis.  Thank you."  He winds up having a total breakdown, and the only thing I could do was listen at first.  Auditors aren't allowed to engage in conversation when the person is in session.  Plus, I wasn't a counselor or equipped to handle something like that.  I didn't care about the rules and tried to console him, to let him know it was okay to talk, that he was safe and that I wouldn't judge anything that happened.  After more than an hour, he did finally start to feel better and we took a break.  I turned in my session report form for that day and the course supervisor (not a trained counselor, just someone trained in overseeing students while they do their courses) said, "Whoa!" when he saw my notes, "Why don't you guys go take a walk and end off for the day." 

"That isn't an uncommon experience at Narconon.  Often people with substance abuse problems and addictions do have major traumatic events in their lives, and there really aren't people at Narconon equipped to help them through the breakdowns and deal with those situations.  All you have is another student and staff members who are only trained in Hubbard's works.  You can only hope to find someone with a level head who is a good listener.

"This is also how so many close friendships develop while being a student at Narconon, because it is usually the students who are relied on to get one another through the program.  They share common experiences and rely on each other for support.  That is where the bonds really start to strengthen.  It is also a big reason why a number of student graduates decide to stay on and train to become staff members (though most don't stay long) - to continue to be around people they've developed these relationships with, whether healthy or not.  It is often a form of codependency or transference."
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on January 26, 2013, 09:05
Quote
Overall it took me about two weeks to complete my Objectives, and then I had to run someone else on them, a guy named Todd.  What I didn't know at the time was that Todd was sexually abused by his step-father.  So later on into it I'm running him on Objective number five and start telling him "Touch that table. Thank you.  Touch your penis.  Thank you."  He winds up having a total breakdown, and the only thing I could do was listen at first.  Auditors aren't allowed to engage in conversation when the person is in session.  Plus, I wasn't a counselor or equipped to handle something like that.  I didn't care about the rules and tried to console him, to let him know it was okay to talk, that he was safe and that I wouldn't judge anything that happened.  After more than an hour, he did finally start to feel better and we took a break.  I turned in my session report form for that day and the course supervisor (not a trained counselor, just someone trained in overseeing students while they do their courses) said, "Whoa!" when he saw my notes, "Why don't you guys go take a walk and end off for the day."

I'm glad you were there for him. At least, he knew you cared.

Quote
"That isn't an uncommon experience at Narconon.  Often people with substance abuse problems and addictions do have major traumatic events in their lives, and there really aren't people at Narconon equipped to help them through the breakdowns and deal with those situations.  All you have is another student and staff members who are only trained in Hubbard's works.  You can only hope to find someone with a level head who is a good listener.

So many people who went to Narconon have complained about this - about not being able to talk about their feelings and the lack of any tools to deal with how they are feeling. Individual, group and family counseling is a fundamental principle of substance abuse treatment.

Quote
"This is also how so many close friendships develop while being a student at Narconon, because it is usually the students who are relied on to get one another through the program.  They share common experiences and rely on each other for support.  That is where the bonds really start to strengthen.  It is also a big reason why a number of student graduates decide to stay on and train to become staff members (though most don't stay long) - to continue to be around people they've developed these relationships with, whether healthy or not.  It is often a form of codependency or transference."

This is a heart-breaker. These young people are clinging to each other, leave Narconon without any tools and relapse to the tune of $30,000 per person.

This is fantastic, Lucas. The individuals that have been there can paint the picture much better than anyone else.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on January 27, 2013, 22:37
Thanks, mefree.

Someone tried to hack into my email today and I was forced to reset my password again.  I am coming closer to completing the book and have located some extremely damaging information to Narconon's credibility, and I have a running timeline of important events.  It is best to be understood as a whole, rather than posting bits and pieces though.

I will share this part, however, as stated by Gary Smith:

Quote
This in turn will produce Opinion Leader status for Narconon Arrowhead and the Narconon network.  The influence and power generated by these dissemination activities will then be channeled towards influencing the "rule makers" that regulate the world-wide drug rehabilitation industry to:

1. Reset the drug treatment standards and regulations that govern the operation and dissemination of rehabilitation and prevention services so they align with LRH's tech.

2. Create even more demand for result-driven solutions for the world's drug epidemic thus expanding the exportation of LRH drug rehabilitation technology even further into the fabric of society.

There is a lot more where this came from.  Their goal has never been to cooperate, it's always been to manipulate and control.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on January 27, 2013, 22:42
Their goal has never been to cooperate, it's always been to manipulate and control.

Well, that's scientology in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: BMF on January 27, 2013, 22:50
Thanks, mefree.

Someone tried to hack into my email today and I was forced to reset my password again.  I am coming closer to completing the book and have located some extremely damaging information to Narconon's credibility, and I have a running timeline of important events.  It is best to be understood as a whole, rather than posting bits and pieces though.

I will share this part, however, as stated by Gary Smith:

Quote
This in turn will produce Opinion Leader status for Narconon Arrowhead and the Narconon network.  The influence and power generated by these dissemination activities will then be channeled towards influencing the "rule makers" that regulate the world-wide drug rehabilitation industry to:

1. Reset the drug treatment standards and regulations that govern the operation and dissemination of rehabilitation and prevention services so they align with LRH's tech.

2. Create even more demand for result-driven solutions for the world's drug epidemic thus expanding the exportation of LRH drug rehabilitation technology even further into the fabric of society.

There is a lot more where this came from.  Their goal has never been to cooperate, it's always been to manipulate and control.

It doesnt surprise me that they tried to do this.  Watch your trash also.  Damn garbage pickers.  Cant wait to see the time line.  Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: snippy on January 28, 2013, 00:34
 ooo}
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on January 28, 2013, 16:19
Thanks, mefree.

Someone tried to hack into my email today and I was forced to reset my password again.  I am coming closer to completing the book and have located some extremely damaging information to Narconon's credibility, and I have a running timeline of important events.  It is best to be understood as a whole, rather than posting bits and pieces though.

I will share this part, however, as stated by Gary Smith:

Quote
This in turn will produce Opinion Leader status for Narconon Arrowhead and the Narconon network.  The influence and power generated by these dissemination activities will then be channeled towards influencing the "rule makers" that regulate the world-wide drug rehabilitation industry to:

1. Reset the drug treatment standards and regulations that govern the operation and dissemination of rehabilitation and prevention services so they align with LRH's tech.

2. Create even more demand for result-driven solutions for the world's drug epidemic thus expanding the exportation of LRH drug rehabilitation technology even further into the fabric of society.

There is a lot more where this came from.  Their goal has never been to cooperate, it's always been to manipulate and control.

You are really pushing their buttons, lol!! As always, do be careful, Luke.

PM ethercat and see if she knows any technical measures you can take to protect your email/website.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: OvertMotivator on February 03, 2013, 16:53
Quote
<snip>..."This is also how so many close friendships develop while being a student at Narconon, because it is usually the students who are relied on to get one another through the program.  They share common experiences and rely on each other for support.  That is where the bonds really start to strengthen.  It is also a big reason why a number of student graduates decide to stay on and train to become staff members (though most don't stay long) - to continue to be around people they've developed these relationships with, whether healthy or not.  It is often a form of codependency or transference." </snip>

As students, yes. In my experience, it also depends on the kind of group of people who are there doing the program with you. I never got too close to other students, I guess it was just timing really. But I witnessed other students developing close, fast, intense friendships.
As staff, on my end (Div 1, aka "ethics"), I was encouraged NOT to be their "friends"... ever. Period. On one level, I understood this; my job was to go around and basically enforce dumb rules, the proverbial parent or headmistress. I couldn't risk favoritism.
But, on the other level, there were people I met there, students, whom I really wanted to step up to and be their friend. I saw so many people struggling, I just wanted to sit with them, give 'em a hug. I did develop fondess for so many... But was not allowed to show it. My bosses & co workers were constantly around, I had to maintain a tough bitchy shell showing no care.
I regret that now. I really do. I look back and wish I just said "Fuck em", and spent time with those who needed it most, the ones who struggled like I had. If I weren't an "Ethics Officer" everything would of been different.
Sorry for the rant  :-[[/font]
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 03, 2013, 19:54
Quote
<snip>..."This is also how so many close friendships develop while being a student at Narconon, because it is usually the students who are relied on to get one another through the program.  They share common experiences and rely on each other for support.  That is where the bonds really start to strengthen.  It is also a big reason why a number of student graduates decide to stay on and train to become staff members (though most don't stay long) - to continue to be around people they've developed these relationships with, whether healthy or not.  It is often a form of codependency or transference." </snip>

As students, yes. In my experience, it also depends on the kind of group of people who are there doing the program with you. I never got too close to other students, I guess it was just timing really. But I witnessed other students developing close, fast, intense friendships.
As staff, on my end (Div 1, aka "ethics"), I was encouraged NOT to be their "friends"... ever. Period. On one level, I understood this; my job was to go around and basically enforce dumb rules, the proverbial parent or headmistress. I couldn't risk favoritism.
But, on the other level, there were people I met there, students, whom I really wanted to step up to and be their friend. I saw so many people struggling, I just wanted to sit with them, give 'em a hug. I did develop fondess for so many... But was not allowed to show it. My bosses & co workers were constantly around, I had to maintain a tough bitchy shell showing no care.
I regret that now. I really do. I look back and wish I just said "Fuck em", and spent time with those who needed it most, the ones who struggled like I had. If I weren't an "Ethics Officer" everything would of been different.
Sorry for the rant  :-[[/font]
Love your 'rant'! More, please!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: OvertMotivator on February 03, 2013, 20:06
Ah Mary, I have so many. A few come to mind right now, though... Sorry to hijack the thread here...
Although I had to keep my distance from students, not hang out with them, not show much affection nor care, I was the first one to be sent to quell a student's distress, especially if they were female.
One time, the I was in the Div1 office with the SDA, and we got word that a student was upset. I was instructed to go be with her, prevent her roomates from coming in.. in fact, prevent anyone non-staff from entering, period. The female intern there left gratefully as soon as I entered. I looked down, shook my head, and tried to talk to this young woman. She was beautiful, from a caring well-off family.  I tried to talk to her, but she clammed up. Her roomates kept coming in (understandably though), and I had to bark at them, sternly enforcing the whole "do not come in here" thing. The young girl started crying... and I felt helpless! Oh god, I felt so utterly clueless. I mean, I understood her pain, I did... But wasn't prepared for this. I was always sent to "calm down" the most troubled students, and never had training nor even a suggestion. My heart broke for them all, I truly wanted to help them, but I felt the weight of not only the expectations of the SDA & ED on my shoulders, but also their family. I knew their families had been told all lies. And here I am, to pick up the pieces... And not knowing what to do with them.
Anyway, I tried so hard to help, but she didn't want to talk to me. Finally, another staff member came in (She worked in WD) and was able to help... The girl opened up to her. But me, I was this "Ethics Robot". Someone that the students were to loathe.
There were so many other times I had to console girls like this. Sometimes it went OK, other times I desperately wished that things were different as they truly needed psychological help. But I knew... They were stuck there, as I had been, with no such help to be found.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 03, 2013, 21:31
Welcome! You're definitely not hijacking. More first-hand accounts are always a good thing. We would love to hear more of what you experienced and witnessed.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: OvertMotivator on February 03, 2013, 22:46
Thanks, Cool. I'll get there eventually. Still alot of things that I guess my mind had filed away. I'm surprised at myself for even divulging all this. Us "Staff", at least the ones with an independently functioning brain, kinda go through alot as I am sure you are well aware of. Takes awhile to warm up :)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 04, 2013, 08:19
Ah Mary, I have so many. A few come to mind right now, though... Sorry to hijack the thread here...
Although I had to keep my distance from students, not hang out with them, not show much affection nor care, I was the first one to be sent to quell a student's distress, especially if they were female.
One time, the I was in the Div1 office with the SDA, and we got word that a student was upset. I was instructed to go be with her, prevent her roomates from coming in.. in fact, prevent anyone non-staff from entering, period. The female intern there left gratefully as soon as I entered. I looked down, shook my head, and tried to talk to this young woman. She was beautiful, from a caring well-off family.  I tried to talk to her, but she clammed up. Her roomates kept coming in (understandably though), and I had to bark at them, sternly enforcing the whole "do not come in here" thing. The young girl started crying... and I felt helpless! Oh god, I felt so utterly clueless. I mean, I understood her pain, I did... But wasn't prepared for this. I was always sent to "calm down" the most troubled students, and never had training nor even a suggestion. My heart broke for them all, I truly wanted to help them, but I felt the weight of not only the expectations of the SDA & ED on my shoulders, but also their family. I knew their families had been told all lies. And here I am, to pick up the pieces... And not knowing what to do with them.
Anyway, I tried so hard to help, but she didn't want to talk to me. Finally, another staff member came in (She worked in WD) and was able to help... The girl opened up to her. But me, I was this "Ethics Robot". Someone that the students were to loathe.
There were so many other times I had to console girls like this. Sometimes it went OK, other times I desperately wished that things were different as they truly needed psychological help. But I knew... They were stuck there, as I had been, with no such help to be found.

Wow! Thank you.... it amazes me that Narconon is allowed to operate at all. The lack of appropriate training...your comment sums it up, in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: SocialTransparency on February 04, 2013, 11:10

 I here you loud and clean OvertMotivator. YOU as a human being wanted to help others in their time of need,yet within whatever modality if in fact narconon has anything resembling a modality you came up short. Not that this was of you're doing,but nowhere were you given the tools to either personally cope with or give guidance to others.

 I tend to steer away from the internal "Hats" and lingo used within the narconon staff structure as for me at least they are meaningless and confusing to the general public. Story after story bolsters that line of thought for me. Working within a failed business model no matter how much YOU want that business to succeed does not make it so in regard to narconon.

 As you yourself may have similar experiences with say another individual going through addiction issues,I think that person to person support on an emotional level is very important. BUT that in no way makes you an authority on how to address very serious emotional,mental and or physical issues seen with people dealing with addictions. That is just my opinion. That is why we have real medical doctors. Psychiatrists,Psychologist , etc. These professionals are very important Imo in aided the individual in overcoming his or her addiction issues.

 The physical withdrawal from drugs and alcohol is just one point in a regime catering towards  recovery. There in lies the fatal flaw within the Narconon modality. It is the INDIVIDUAL who from the day they say to themselves I, AM HELPLESS and I need help in my journey to stop the cycle of substance abuse. That thought alone is a massive step.

 The individual has come to the intelligent conclusion they no longer WANT the life they have lived up until that point in time. That will to chance is the biggest step in their recovery imo. THEN and only then can professional,s within the field aid and support them on that journey to break the mental chains that got them to that point in their lives.

 Now that this individual is READY to make a change from my perspective,that person and or their family has some serious choices to make. All involved want to help and be helped. They may be ashamed by the social stigma attached to addiction therefore do not ask a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL for guidance. They may use the internet. Once there they are overwhelmed by the choices. They are not savvy about what is a good or bad program. They DEPEND on their fellow man to assist them. As we know, on the internet is a plethora of adds stating "We can help" or our program has such and such success rate.

 As we have come to find out, those claims are misleading. We never suspect that those referring our loved one to say a narconon are monetarily compensated in a fashion that out paces the rest of the industry. As we know the internet is riff with these referral sites. Many and I mean many are sit up by ex clients and or agents from Narconon.

 Within that marketing strategy most google listing favor narconon in rankings.

 Now we have a patient who is ready to heal and a family who is ready to pay for that healing. Seems we Americans have a mentality that a quick fix and online promises are the cure for the loved one. Pay the money and the problem will be addressed. Narconon and its agents understand this. The clients family is promised things that may be unobtainable.

 Once the money and contracts have been signed and the licensing entities like narconon Int and ABLE have been contractually satisfied only then IT IS YOU whom attempts to 'Make good" on those promises.

 Thing is YOU were never given the tools and materials to live up to those promises of rehabilitation. In some fashion an odd co-dependent scenario arises. Yourself the former student who is now staff and the new student both have some things in common. Thing is Imo this is where unbeknownst to YOU the cycle repeats itself. You find yourself in need of employment. You as a compassionate human being find yourself in a "Catch 22" situation. You want to help on a moral level,yet due to the narconon modality are not allowed to.

 It is and NEVER will be your fault. Why? Well, for me at least this is an easy question to answer. Narconon is based on the writings of L. Ron Hubbard. That fact alone should bring comfort to you during those times of maybe shame and doubt arise within you. Never beat yourself up about it. The fault lies squarely at the feet of those whom subscribe to the writings of Mr. Hubbard.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: SocialTransparency on February 13, 2013, 23:38
Lucas Catton shares his personal experiences with Scientology and Narconon in his just released book called
Have You Told All?: Inside My Time with Narconon and Scientology

Quote
Lucas Catton was a Scientologist for 12 years and contributed to many Scientology-related activities. He was introduced to the organization primarily through its rehabilitation program Narconon, and worked with them for over ten years in various capacities, including as President of their flagship facility in Oklahoma called Narconon Arrowhead. He sits in a unique position of having arguably more knowledge than anyone else who has publicly addressed the inner workings of the Narconon network and its connection to Scientology in the 21st century. He decided to speak out publicly following a series of deaths tied to Narconon in hopes to shed more light on its operations as well as to stop the harmful practices of the church of Scientology.


http://www.amazon.com/Have-You-Told-All-Scientology/dp/0615768725/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360785864&sr=8-1&keywords=Have+you+told+all+by+Lucas+Catton

http://www.haveyoutoldall.com
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on February 14, 2013, 00:25
Lucas Catton shares his personal experiences with Scientology and Narconon in his just released book called
Have You Told All?: Inside My Time with Narconon and Scientology

Quote
Lucas Catton was a Scientologist for 12 years and contributed to many Scientology-related activities. He was introduced to the organization primarily through its rehabilitation program Narconon, and worked with them for over ten years in various capacities, including as President of their flagship facility in Oklahoma called Narconon Arrowhead. He sits in a unique position of having arguably more knowledge than anyone else who has publicly addressed the inner workings of the Narconon network and its connection to Scientology in the 21st century. He decided to speak out publicly following a series of deaths tied to Narconon in hopes to shed more light on its operations as well as to stop the harmful practices of the church of Scientology.


http://www.amazon.com/Have-You-Told-All-Scientology/dp/0615768725/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360785864&sr=8-1&keywords=Have+you+told+all+by+Lucas+Catton

http://www.haveyoutoldall.com

Fantabulous!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 14, 2013, 01:39
Thank you!  I have bared my soul in this book - so be gentle!  Seriously though, I'd appreciate any and all honest feedback from those who read it, and if someone wants to order a signed copy for any reason, they can do it through www.haveyoutoldall.com.

I'm currently working on some media interest and hope to have some big news fairly soon!  In the meantime, thank you for all your support and what you do here.

Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 14, 2013, 01:57
Funny we should be up so late and attending to the book. I just emailed you, Luke! I've been reading your terrific book and just forced myself to put it down so I can get to sleep.

Must be up at 6am  :'(

Will post a review soon :)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 14, 2013, 02:23
Funny we should be up so late and attending to the book. I just emailed you, Luke! I've been reading your terrific book and just forced myself to put it down so I can get to sleep.

Must be up at 6am  :'(

Will post a review soon :)

Thank you, Mary.  I greatly appreciate all that you do and value your feedback!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: BMF on February 14, 2013, 07:50
Its pretty bad ass dude.  Good job!!!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: SocialTransparency on February 14, 2013, 09:17
 The book needs no review in my humble opinion. This book stands on its own merits as a factual account of a young mans journey through something unfathomable to the casual reader. If you want a fact based from the heart truth based account of the writers experience's within Scientology and Narconon,by all means read this book!

 
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 14, 2013, 09:20
Thank you BMF and ST, it is very kind to hear!  I hope it is able to shed more light on the overall situation in a way that hasn't been expressed before.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: BMF on February 14, 2013, 09:39
It does. 
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on February 16, 2013, 23:29
Ok, I was going to wait till I finished the book to comment, but this part just screams out at me:

Quote
Scientology had hired its own full-time lobbyist, Greg Mitchell.  I had attended a meeting in the conference room above Rena's office at ABLE Int in LA regarding Scientology's social betterment representation at the Capitol in D.C. Present at the meeting were Gary Smith, Deputy Commanding Officer of the Office of Special Affairs (OSA) Kurt Weiland and his assistant, Greg Mitchell, ABLE Director of Development Rubina Qureshi, Clark Carr,
Rena Weinberg and me.

Rena had told me prior to the meeting to basically stay silent and observe since Kurt Weiland was going to be there, which I did for the most part. However, they had gotten some things mixed up and I interjected regarding the scene in Oklahoma. I explained my position within OSASA and the state of affairs, as well as my understanding of the political landscape in the addiction treatment field at the time.

The main political goals included gaining more acceptance and support, but also to find budgetary earmarks to be able to get public funding for Scientology activities through ABLE programs. Mitchell was supposed to keep an eye out for possible funding sources.

It was my understanding that as a non-profit church, Scientology is not supposed to be doing any lobbying or political activity.  Other church organizations have had their tax exemption yanked for doing that. 

BigBeard might have some comment on this, too, since he seems to have an interest in the tax-exemption.

Is this an exploitable vulnerability?
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on February 16, 2013, 23:58
By the way, I split off Confusedhsbnd's posts into their own thread.
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,12264.0.html

Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 17, 2013, 00:17
Quote
It was my understanding that as a non-profit church, Scientology is not supposed to be doing any lobbying or political activity.  Other church organizations have had their tax exemption yanked for doing that.

BigBeard might have some comment on this, too, since he seems to have an interest in the tax-exemption.

Is this an exploitable vulnerability?

I did a bit of research into this area as well, and believe that it just has to be kept under a certain percentage of their budget or time focus, though I could be wrong.  At the time of that meeting, Greg Mitchell was introduced to me as a "new Scientologist" and he then later was fully converted.  It certainly calls for more investigation.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on February 17, 2013, 08:13
http://www.independentsector.org/lobbying_guidelines_public_charities

Luke is correct.  Hi Luke.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: BigBeard on February 18, 2013, 14:43
I'm pretty much focused on the money flows between the organizations. But it's also my understanding that, with a few limited exceptions, lobbying of the type mentioned is not allowed.

Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 21, 2013, 20:06
I can't stress it enough that Lucas Catton's book, Have You Told All, is a must-read for everyone.
http://www.amazon.com/Have-You-Told-All-Scientology/dp/0615768725/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361462551&sr=1-1

It's the first ever written by someone who came into Scientology through Narconon, who did the program, joined staff, became an executive and found himself lead into Scientology and becoming a scientologist by Narconon's efforts. The course his young adult life took, as he came to understand the mess he'd gotten himself into, is filled with difficult choices and a desire to do what was right despite the opposition. This book shows how the ordinary person gets sucked into Narconon, how Narconon works and how the church of Scientology plays an integral part in trying to control the lives of Narconon victims through this front group. Luke has come a long way since being declared an SP. This book explains his evolution into and out of the insanity and the sacrifices he had to make in order to be able to think for himself and preserve his relationship with what was left of his family.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 21, 2013, 20:21
Thank you.  I very sincerely appreciate your words.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on February 21, 2013, 20:25
I can't stress it enough that Lucas Catton's book, Have You Told All, is a must-read for everyone.
http://www.amazon.com/Have-You-Told-All-Scientology/dp/0615768725/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361462551&sr=1-1

It's the first ever written by someone who came into Scientology through Narconon, who did the program, joined staff, became an executive and found himself lead into Scientology and becoming a scientologist by Narconon's efforts. The course his young adult life took, as he came to understand the mess he'd gotten himself into, is filled with difficult choices and a desire to do what was right despite the opposition. This book shows how the ordinary person gets sucked into Narconon, how Narconon works and how the church of Scientology plays an integral part in trying to control the lives of Narconon victims through this front group. Luke has come a long way since being declared an SP. This book explains his evolution into and out of the insanity and the sacrifices he had to make in order to be able to think for himself and preserve his relationship with what was left of his family.

Well done, Mary.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Intelligence on February 21, 2013, 22:44
Great job Luke, in getting your book published and available - - my copy is ordered
and on the way.

Looking forward to reading it ASAP {HUG} :)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 22, 2013, 01:42
Thank you Luke. And mefree
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: who me? on February 22, 2013, 07:23
Thanks for writing your book, Luke. Reading it now.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 22, 2013, 10:21
Thanks David and WM!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: SocialTransparency on February 22, 2013, 10:33
I'm pretty much focused on the money flows between the organizations. But it's also my understanding that, with a few limited exceptions, lobbying of the type mentioned is not allowed.

 The work you are doing is greatly appreciated BB
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 22, 2013, 11:05
I'm pretty much focused on the money flows between the organizations. But it's also my understanding that, with a few limited exceptions, lobbying of the type mentioned is not allowed.

 The work you are doing is greatly appreciated BB

Yes, much appreciated!!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Intelligence on February 22, 2013, 15:02
Thanks David and WM!

Welcome! Luke, I would like to help you promote your book by publishing an article in
the Examiner. Just waiting to here from my manager right now about something first?

I want to commend you for your courage and YOU need to know, that by doing what you are
doing, many WILL be helped. Writing and publishing a book is a huge work - - very time consuming indeed.

So, if you would kindly PM me with contact info, I can call you on a Secure Skype line :-)

AND ,..., THANK YOU TIPPING POINT for ALL you do!!!!! {{{HUGS}}} and much LOVE to ALL ||O||
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on February 22, 2013, 18:12
I'm still reading...  but...

Quote from: Have You Told All?
One of the questions that is part of doing end rudiments is "Have you told all?" Indeed I had and I was ready to get the hell out of there.

I'm glad to know where the name of the book comes from.   ;D
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 22, 2013, 19:45
I'm still reading...  but...
I'm glad to know where the name of the book comes from.   ;D

There's also this explanation: http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/about-the-title/
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on February 22, 2013, 19:54
auditor: Have you told all?

me: (thinking) yes, there's still a lot more money in my pocket though even though I told the 8 year old I was broke.

auditor: What's that?

me: Nothing
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on February 22, 2013, 22:23
I'm still reading...  but...
I'm glad to know where the name of the book comes from.   ;D

There's also this explanation: http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/about-the-title/

Thank you very much.  I guess I need to get out more.   (:E)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 22, 2013, 22:25
auditor: Have you told all?

me: (thinking) yes, there's still a lot more money in my pocket though even though I told the 8 year old I was broke.

auditor: What's that?

me: Nothing

Ha! :-D^\^\
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on February 22, 2013, 22:26
auditor: Have you told all?

me: (thinking) yes, there's still a lot more money in my pocket though even though I told the 8 year old I was broke.

auditor: What's that?

me: Nothing

Hahaha!  Have you ever thought about being a comedian for your second career?
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on February 22, 2013, 22:43
auditor: Have you told all?

me: (thinking) yes, there's still a lot more money in my pocket though even though I told the 8 year old I was broke.

auditor: What's that?

me: Nothing

Hahaha!  Have you ever thought about being a comedian for your second career?

That's actually a true story.  I am kind of a joker although you would not think that by seeing me (so Ive been told at least 1000 times).  When I was a Supervisor at NN there wasnt one person that I ever encountered that I couldnt make laugh on the TR's.  Not trying to toot my own horn or anything (toot toot). 

Next time I see you remind me to tell you about the girl who thought up ketchup packets (as she was using them on her food). 
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: SocialTransparency on February 22, 2013, 22:47
 Rehab humor. :o Is there a market for such a thing?
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on February 22, 2013, 22:58
Gotta laugh about it.  I was in a cult for over a decade, I have to.  There are some good memories.  At least I got to sing happy birthday by myself while running graduation in my best Marilyn Monroe voice in front of all the staff and students.  Thats worth a decade in the cult.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 22, 2013, 23:07
 ;D
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on February 22, 2013, 23:18
Gotta laugh about it.  I was in a cult for over a decade, I have to.  There are some good memories.  At least I got to sing happy birthday by myself while running graduation in my best Marilyn Monroe voice in front of all the staff and students.  Thats worth a decade in the cult.

Love it!  :D
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Cooper on February 23, 2013, 14:50
I just finished the book.  I took real interest after having been a "student" at Narconon Warner Springs.  Rather Narconon Fresh Start.  I mean Sunshine summit lodge?  You get my point.  It was amazing to read the exact connections to Scientology.  I had learned a lot about Narconon through research however didn't know that much if nothing about Scientology.  I knew something was wrong after being in the program only a few day's.  I was a real addict who needed real help.  After getting out of Narconon and relapsing I was diagnosed with being bipolar.  I remember being at Narconon and being off drugs but feeling like a dry drunk who wasn't getting the one on one treatment I was promised.  I chose to seek treatment was really ready to get help.  Seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist was what I needed.  After being diagnosed and getting the right medications and counseling I finally started to feel better.  I feel all Narconon wanted from me was my money, for me to clean the center, and to help other students through the TR's.  None of what they did helped me at all.  Anyway's it was very well written, I really enjoyed you're story and reading through you're ups and downs.  I'm glad you are helping bringing these things to light so other people and their families don't get scammed. I wish you the best in you're personal life and thanks once again for the very interesting and informative facts.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 23, 2013, 15:34
I just finished the book.  I took real interest after having been a "student" at Narconon Warner Springs.  Rather Narconon Fresh Start.  I mean Sunshine summit lodge?  You get my point.  It was amazing to read the exact connections to Scientology.  I had learned a lot about Narconon through research however didn't know that much if nothing about Scientology.  I knew something was wrong after being in the program only a few day's.  I was a real addict who needed real help.  After getting out of Narconon and relapsing I was diagnosed with being bipolar.  I remember being at Narconon and being off drugs but feeling like a dry drunk who wasn't getting the one on one treatment I was promised.  I chose to seek treatment was really ready to get help.  Seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist was what I needed.  After being diagnosed and getting the right medications and counseling I finally started to feel better.  I feel all Narconon wanted from me was my money, for me to clean the center, and to help other students through the TR's.  None of what they did helped me at all.  Anyway's it was very well written, I really enjoyed you're story and reading through you're ups and downs.  I'm glad you are helping bringing these things to light so other people and their families don't get scammed. I wish you the best in you're personal life and thanks once again for the very interesting and informative facts.

Welcome, Cooper! Thanks so much for posting this. So glad you got the help you needed and are doing well. Your experience with Narconon is important for others to read.  Thank you for sharing this. I hope we hear more from you.

Mary
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 23, 2013, 17:39
I just finished the book.  I took real interest after having been a "student" at Narconon Warner Springs.  Rather Narconon Fresh Start.  I mean Sunshine summit lodge?  You get my point.  It was amazing to read the exact connections to Scientology.  I had learned a lot about Narconon through research however didn't know that much if nothing about Scientology.  I knew something was wrong after being in the program only a few day's.  I was a real addict who needed real help.  After getting out of Narconon and relapsing I was diagnosed with being bipolar.  I remember being at Narconon and being off drugs but feeling like a dry drunk who wasn't getting the one on one treatment I was promised.  I chose to seek treatment was really ready to get help.  Seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist was what I needed.  After being diagnosed and getting the right medications and counseling I finally started to feel better.  I feel all Narconon wanted from me was my money, for me to clean the center, and to help other students through the TR's.  None of what they did helped me at all.  Anyway's it was very well written, I really enjoyed you're story and reading through you're ups and downs.  I'm glad you are helping bringing these things to light so other people and their families don't get scammed. I wish you the best in you're personal life and thanks once again for the very interesting and informative facts.

Thank you, Cooper.  I'm sorry you experienced that, but very glad to hear that you sought other treatment and are doing well.  I sincerely appreciate you for sharing your experience and your support!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Intelligence on February 23, 2013, 23:42
Couldn't wait for mail ordered copy, so reading a Kindle now - YAHOO!!! ||O|| |__|D:O
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: snippy on February 24, 2013, 00:25
:o
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: SocialTransparency on February 24, 2013, 09:14
||O|| |__|D:O

 LOL!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Intelligence on February 24, 2013, 11:39
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2il0aza.jpg)


^^^THIS^^^ - - is so true. Mistakes are quite simply a fact of life; a fact that we're not perfect - - and when we
admit them to ourselves and others, which I personal have done on numerous occasions, I think it gives us a
freedom of not having to hide and cover them.

I still do struggle with forgiving myself and working with a therapist to help me.

VERY nice dedication, Luke {{{HUG}}}

  ===|8OOOo

Is this ^^^ clock being shown in a mirrow and says 2:00pm on Thursday - ROFL :)

.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: who me? on February 24, 2013, 13:45
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2il0aza.jpg)


^^^THIS^^^ - - is so true. Mistakes are quite simply a fact of life; a fact that we're not perfect - - and when we
admit them to ourselves and others, which I personal have done on numerous occasions, I think it gives us a
freedom of not having to hide and cover them.

I still do struggle with forgiving myself and working with a therapist to help me.

Your past experiences, including your mistakes are what formed the YOU that is here today. A person who has never made significant mistakes or seen the other side of addiction, will have more difficulty developing empathy with those who have walked these paths. Along with forgiving yourself for your past, celebrate the person you have grown into...one who has taken charge of his health and life, and a champion for people who need help but are mistakenly written off too often. This is a truly remarkable journey you are on.

I am so amazed at you and the others who are on this tough journey and are doing so much to right what is wrong in the face of some pretty steep odds (which are changing thanks to people like you).

I hope this makes some kind of sense.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Intelligence on February 24, 2013, 13:50
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2il0aza.jpg)


^^^THIS^^^ - - is so true. Mistakes are quite simply a fact of life; a fact that we're not perfect - - and when we
admit them to ourselves and others, which I personal have done on numerous occasions, I think it gives us a
freedom of not having to hide and cover them.

I still do struggle with forgiving myself and working with a therapist to help me.

Your past experiences, including your mistakes are what formed the YOU that is here today. A person who has never made significant mistakes or seen the other side of addiction, will have more difficulty developing empathy with those who have walked these paths. Along with forgiving yourself for your past, celebrate the person you have grown into...one who has taken charge of his health and life, and a champion for people who need help but are mistakenly written off too often. This is a truly remarkable journey you are on.

I am so amazed at you and the others who are on this tough journey and are doing so much to right what is wrong in the face of some pretty steep odds (which are changing thanks to people like you).

I hope this makes some kind of sense.

Yes, absolutely makes sense - thank you :-)

.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on February 25, 2013, 21:06
Lucas is interviewed on Radio Paul's show tonight at 10 pm: http://www.radio-paul.com/
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 25, 2013, 21:22
Lucas is interviewed on Radio Paul's show tonight at 10 pm: http://www.radio-paul.com/

Terrific! Thanks!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on February 25, 2013, 21:26
Posted by patriot75 on WWP:

Quote
Tonight on Radio Paul's Radio Rants Narconon 5.0 with Narconon Arrowhead's former President Lucas Catton. Show airs live at 10pm EST.
http://www.radio-paul.com/

Listen live at this link: www.fcac.org/radio-fairfax

Luke has launched his book "Have You Told All?" a couple of weeks ago. His book is opening many eyes and those eyes are speaking out.

Get your copy at: www.amazon.com/Have-You-Told-All-Scientology/dp/0615768725

Luke's blog site: www.haveyoutoldall.com/

Eyes are speaking out. I must listen!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: SocialTransparency on February 25, 2013, 21:34
Posted by patriot75 on WWP:

Quote
Tonight on Radio Paul's Radio Rants Narconon 5.0 with Narconon Arrowhead's former President Lucas Catton. Show airs live at 10pm EST.
http://www.radio-paul.com/

Listen live at this link: www.fcac.org/radio-fairfax

Luke has launched his book "Have You Told All?" a couple of weeks ago. His book is opening many eyes and those eyes are speaking out.

Get your copy at: www.amazon.com/Have-You-Told-All-Scientology/dp/0615768725

Luke's blog site: www.haveyoutoldall.com/

Eyes are speaking out. I must listen!

LOL.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 25, 2013, 21:46
 OO_OO
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 25, 2013, 22:05
On now!!
Live stream. Click button under Stream Radio Fairfax or click the hyperlink to  listen with an external player
http://www.fcac.org/radio-fairfax?channel=37
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 28, 2013, 11:22
Just added this to the mix. 

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lacpib/2013/02/28/narconon-and-scientology

Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 28, 2013, 11:57
Just added this to the mix. 

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lacpib/2013/02/28/narconon-and-scientology

Yeah!! Thanks. Now I get to hear the whole show :)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on February 28, 2013, 12:04
I listened to it.  Wow!  I can't believe a current member of the "church" would tell you that they wished you would die and that you were a piece of shit.  This is a direct violation of soooo many of their scriptures.  This person obviously needs to go to the "church" and see an "ethics officer" so that they can help them get their ethics in.  A thorough "security check" and "lower conditions" are in order.  After that they would need to see the "cramming officer" for "word clearing" and restudy of the materials.  Some practice on the "TR's" and the "Tone Scale" is certainly in order.

The decent thing to do would be an apology but I doubt you'll get that.

I liked the part on their "certifications". 
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 28, 2013, 12:24

Yeah!! Thanks. Now I get to hear the whole show :)

Different show.  I just recorded this one this morning.  Still waiting for Monday's show to be uploaded online.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on February 28, 2013, 12:25
I listened to it.  Wow!  I can't believe a current member of the "church" would tell you that they wished you would die and that you were a piece of shit.  This is a direct violation of soooo many of their scriptures.  This person obviously needs to go to the "church" and see an "ethics officer" so that they can help them get their ethics in.  A thorough "security check" and "lower conditions" are in order.  After that they would need to see the "cramming officer" for "word clearing" and restudy of the materials.  Some practice on the "TR's" and the "Tone Scale" is certainly in order.

The decent thing to do would be an apology but I doubt you'll get that.

I liked the part on their "certifications".

Yeah, well...if you're not a member of Scientology then you're only looked at one of two ways by them - someone who must be recruited or someone who must be destroyed.  There isn't an in-between area for the fully-brainwashed.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 28, 2013, 12:29

Yeah!! Thanks. Now I get to hear the whole show :)

Different show.  I just recorded this one this morning.  Still waiting for Monday's show to be uploaded online.

Terrific. Thanks. Will listen this afternoon
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on February 28, 2013, 13:59
I listened to it.  Wow!  I can't believe a current member of the "church" would tell you that they wished you would die and that you were a piece of shit.  This is a direct violation of soooo many of their scriptures.  This person obviously needs to go to the "church" and see an "ethics officer" so that they can help them get their ethics in.  A thorough "security check" and "lower conditions" are in order.  After that they would need to see the "cramming officer" for "word clearing" and restudy of the materials.  Some practice on the "TR's" and the "Tone Scale" is certainly in order.

The decent thing to do would be an apology but I doubt you'll get that.

I liked the part on their "certifications".

Yeah, well...if you're not a member of Scientology then you're only looked at one of two ways by them - someone who must be recruited or someone who must be destroyed.  There isn't an in-between area for the fully-brainwashed.

Yes, that person is fully brainwashed and has even taken it a step further to being an outright fanatic.  I hope the OSA and Narconon lurkers that read this put the reigns on that person before they do some real damage. 

Does that person happen to hold a fraudulently attained CCDC certificate and PR themselves as being someone who actually counselled people in the past?
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 28, 2013, 16:04
Just added this to the mix. 

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lacpib/2013/02/28/narconon-and-scientology

Excellent, Luke. You really lay it all out there; "the bridge to the bridge'. Good work!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on February 28, 2013, 20:10
I listened to it.  Wow!  I can't believe a current member of the "church" would tell you that they wished you would die and that you were a piece of shit.

I can.  This is not uncommon from what I've seen as a critic for years.  Someone from the "church" even came onto ARS (another critic group) and gloated when it became public that Robert Vaughn Young (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Vaughn_Young) had advanced prostate cancer that had metasticized.  Read these:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/6dc5529737da3e7c?dmode=source
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/195a14453ddd318d?dmode=source

Quote
  This is a direct violation of soooo many of their scriptures.  This person obviously needs to go to the "church" and see an "ethics officer" so that they can help them get their ethics in.  A thorough "security check" and "lower conditions" are in order.  After that they would need to see the "cramming officer" for "word clearing" and restudy of the materials.  Some practice on the "TR's" and the "Tone Scale" is certainly in order.

Eric, Eric, Eric...  That's all just there for show.  That's not what scientology is about.  It's about KSW and expansion, by any means necessary.

You have much to learn about the "church", young padawan.   :)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 4myboy on February 28, 2013, 20:39
I'm new to this site and just heard of this form of "treatment". thank you for all the valuable information
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on February 28, 2013, 20:41
Those letters, WOW, just WOW! 

Scientology is the premier weaponized spiritual philosophy of the 21st century. 
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on February 28, 2013, 21:15
I'm new to this site and just heard of this form of "treatment". thank you for all the valuable information

Hello and welcome!!

Look for my private message for more info on Best Drug Rehab (BDR)

Lets stay calm about this for now. I'll do what I can to assist you.

Best wishes,

Mary
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on March 04, 2013, 15:41
For early risers on the east coast, will be on the AM Tampa Bay show on 970 WFLA at for a short bit at 6:40 http://www.970wfla.com/pages/am-tampa-bay.html
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on March 04, 2013, 16:22
Awesome. 
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 04, 2013, 16:23
For early risers on the east coast, will be on the AM Tampa Bay show on 970 WFLA at for a short bit at 6:40 http://www.970wfla.com/pages/am-tampa-bay.html

Tomorrow morning? Mar 5th?

I think one can listen in live off the internet from here:
Live- Newsradio 970 WFLA
http://www.iheart.com/live/2823/?autoplay=true
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on March 04, 2013, 17:55
Thanks! Yes, we recorded it this morning and I was told it would air tomorrow morning at that time.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on March 04, 2013, 19:59
For early risers on the east coast, will be on the AM Tampa Bay show on 970 WFLA at for a short bit at 6:40 http://www.970wfla.com/pages/am-tampa-bay.html

Thanks, Lucas. I hope I can catch this in the morning.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on March 04, 2013, 20:07
I'll try too, but is there any chance it will be online after it airs?
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on March 04, 2013, 22:41
I'll try too, but is there any chance it will be online after it airs?

I don't know if they offer it afterwards or not, but I don't think so.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on March 05, 2013, 06:57
Nice job!

For those who missed it, Luke touched on the Narconon/Scientology connection, deceptive and fraudulent advertising/recruitment through Narconon, disconnection from family and friends, Sea Org workers long hours and low pay, the billion year contract, SP declares. 

Did I leave anything out? He covered a lot of territory in about 10 minutes or less! 
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on March 05, 2013, 07:15
Thanks! Yes, it was very short but I tried to hit some key points. Best part is that is the most-listened-to morning radio in the whole area.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on March 05, 2013, 11:49
Thanks! Yes, it was very short but I tried to hit some key points. Best part is that is the most-listened-to morning radio in the whole area.

Terrific!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: cnhender on March 05, 2013, 13:58
Fantastic Luke! I missed it but it sounds like you did another stellar job.

If anyone has a recording I'll YouTube it up.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on March 05, 2013, 20:05
I need to figure out how to make my computer automatically record all this stuff since I always seem to miss it.   :(
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 05, 2013, 21:36
 :'( I missed it.

I Need to upload freecorder again, and tape these darn things.

http://www.freecorder.com/
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on March 08, 2013, 16:39
I had recorded an interview on The Edge with Tom Smith a few months ago, but it didn't air back then.  It will be airing this Monday night at 9 PM on Hawk Radio out of Hillsborough Community College (another one in their backyard...).  It was a good interview, and parts that haven't been covered anywhere else yet, so tune in then if you're inclined, or it will be available online after the show at www.theedgewithtomsmith.com.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 08, 2013, 17:23
I had recorded an interview on The Edge with Tom Smith a few months ago, but it didn't air back then.  It will be airing this Monday night at 9 PM on Hawk Radio out of Hillsborough Community College (another one in their backyard...).  It was a good interview, and parts that haven't been covered anywhere else yet, so tune in then if you're inclined, or it will be available online after the show at www.theedgewithtomsmith.com.

Excellent!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 09, 2013, 23:31
Bump as reminder for Monday nite show!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on March 18, 2013, 23:22
Former Executive’s Tell-All Adds to Scientology Rehab Program Meltdown - The Underground Bunker (http://tonyortega.org/2013/03/18/former-executives-tell-all-adds-to-scientology-rehab-programs-meltdown/)
By Tony Ortega

It’s been stunning to see the Narconon drug rehab network emerge in the past year as perhaps Scientology’s single biggest crisis of the many that it faces.

And key to that growing problem for the church has been Lucas Catton, formerly president of Scientology’s flagship rehab facility in Oklahoma, Narconon Arrowhead.

Last year, Catton came forward to tell us about Narconon’s questionable business practices in the wake of several patient deaths that have led to criminal investigations and civil lawsuits. Earlier this month, in part because of Catton’s whistleblowing, the CEO of Narconon Arrowhead was stripped of his drug counselor certification.

Like other former Scientologists who have written self-published memoirs, Catton was in a remarkable position to witness some of Narconon and Scientology’s worst behavior. And his book makes for some startling reading....

Much more at http://tonyortega.org/2013/03/18/former-executives-tell-all-adds-to-scientology-rehab-programs-meltdown/
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: SocialTransparency on March 19, 2013, 09:16
(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t450/FactsOnView/FinalTony_zps601e5312.jpg)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on March 19, 2013, 23:02
(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t450/FactsOnView/FinalTony_zps601e5312.jpg)

Great, thanks!  BTW, The Edge with Tom Smith finally aired today.  It is now available at http://theedgewithtomsmith.com/pgms/indexpg.html

Although it was recorded months ago, there are parts that haven't really been discussed in other shows and are very relevant to the overall situation.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 23, 2013, 14:39
(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t450/FactsOnView/FinalTony_zps601e5312.jpg)

Great, thanks!  BTW, The Edge with Tom Smith finally aired today.  It is now available at http://theedgewithtomsmith.com/pgms/indexpg.html

Although it was recorded months ago, there are parts that haven't really been discussed in other shows and are very relevant to the overall situation.

What a terrific interview, Lucas! So much good information in there. You really topped all you have done previously with this interview. The part about the drug education program - people just don't know the enormity of Narconon's outreach and why it is so important to help expose what they are doing. Indoctrinating these children to think well of the name L Ron Hubbard... scarey!

Thank you for your continued help in expose Narconon and Scientology. Can't wait to see and hear what you and Eric have to say in the NBC show this friday!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on March 23, 2013, 16:55
Narconon trying to align themselves with CBT is despicable.  Luke did a great job of exposing the truth on this BS line they were trying to push.

As for the NBC show, I must say that the piece will be full of truth.  Truth that they dont want told.  They can say anything they want about me or Luke.  The facts are the facts.  All I did was say "look at this", no allegations, no "I think they mean this or that".  Straight, unadulterated facts.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 23, 2013, 19:01
Narconon trying to align themselves with CBT is despicable.  Luke did a great job of exposing the truth on this BS line they were trying to push.

As for the NBC show, I must say that the piece will be full of truth.  Truth that they dont want told.  They can say anything they want about me or Luke.  The facts are the facts.  All I did was say "look at this", no allegations, no "I think they mean this or that".  Straight, unadulterated facts.

Tes, that was another very important part of the interview.... I have see this happening art other facilities, in their licensing apps, like they are delivering some kind of CBT as therapy.

Boy, do we have work to do...
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on March 23, 2013, 19:59
Im up for it.  It needs to be done.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 23, 2013, 22:15
Im up for it.  It needs to be done.

I have some documents. Have to dig them up. Give me a week. I have oter stuff I need to get done. If I forget, remind me. This is big stuff. Kent McGregor started this calling the program components CBT. It's baloney.

"4. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which examines thoughts and ideas about drugs and life and re-trains participants in choosing pro-social behaviors."
http://web.archive.org/web/20090130121221/http://secondchancedocumentation.com/pdf/KentMcGregorLetter.pdf

second chance documentation
http://web.archive.org/web/20090130121221/http://secondchancedocumentation.com/

Then Per Wickstrom ran with it, in his programs...
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on March 23, 2013, 22:24
I studied about CBT.  The narconon program is not at all CBT.  Per also started doing MRT.  Moral Reconation Therapy.  What a joker.  What do you expect from the guy that says he was a professional boxer and Kent McGregor.  Captain of team Pita Pocket.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 23, 2013, 23:04
I studied about CBT.  The narconon program is not at all CBT.  Per also started doing MRT.  Moral Reconation Therapy.  What a joker.  What do you expect from the guy that says he was a professional boxer and Kent McGregor.  Captain of team Pita Pocket.

Quote
He also was suspicious of how they conduct CBT there (although I don't know what he would be comparing it too) and was fearful of being brainwashed; he switched from CBT to MRT. 

Quote
More on MRT:
 
Moral Reconation Therapy, MRT® is the premiere Cognitive-Behavioral program for offender populations and only trained and certified MRT facilitators are permitted to conduct these highly effective and specialized groups.
 
Most of the Good Success services and interventions we offer are based on the Cognitive-Behavioral Model (CBT), and utilize Evidenced-Based Cognitive-Behavioral treatment materials — specifically, MRT®.
 
MRT® has been included in SAMHSA's National Registry of Evidence-based Programs and Practices. It is the premiere cognitive-behavioral program for substance abuse treatment and offender populations, including parole and probation settings, outpatient programs, educational settings and drug courts.
 
It was developed in 1985 by Dr. Gregory Little and Dr. Kenneth Robinson, and over 120 published outcomes have documented that MRT®-treated offenders show significantly lower recidivism for periods as long as 10-years after treatment.
The approach leads to increased participation rates, increased program completion rates, decreased disciplinary infractions, and beneficial changes in personality characteristics.  All MRT® groups must be operated by MRT®-certified facilitators -- professional staff who complete 32-hour training.
 
Definition of MRT®
The term moral refers to moral reasoning level based on Kohlberg's levels of cognitive reasoning. The word reconation comes from the psychological terms conative and conation, which refer to the process of making conscious decisions. MRT® is a cognitive-behavioral system that leads to enhanced moral reasoning, better decision making, and more appropriate behavior.
For More Information About MRT® visit www.ccimrt.com
http://www.goodsuccessclassrooms.com/#/what-is-mrt/4539698586
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Cigul on March 23, 2013, 23:25
Ya...I am trained in CBT and used it with nearly every client I worked with in one way or another. The first time I heard Narconon claiming to be using CBT I didn't know whether to laugh, cry, or set something on fire.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on March 24, 2013, 00:40
Sadly, CBT is why some people have chosen the Narconon program. More deception.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on March 24, 2013, 08:43
Quote
What a terrific interview, Lucas! So much good information in there. You really topped all you have done previously with this interview. The part about the drug education program - people just don't know the enormity of Narconon's outreach and why it is so important to help expose what they are doing. Indoctrinating these children to think well of the name L Ron Hubbard... scarey!

Thank you for your continued help in expose Narconon and Scientology. Can't wait to see and hear what you and Eric have to say in the NBC show this friday!

Thank you, Mary!  Tom did a great job prepping for it and even went back in and recorded more on the CBT stuff after Gary Smith claimed Narconon used CBT.  For a guy who has spent more than 30 years working at Narconon, he really doesn't have much of a clue about the rest of the treatment industry.



Quote
Narconon trying to align themselves with CBT is despicable.  Luke did a great job of exposing the truth on this BS line they were trying to push.

As for the NBC show, I must say that the piece will be full of truth.  Truth that they dont want told.  They can say anything they want about me or Luke.  The facts are the facts.  All I did was say "look at this", no allegations, no "I think they mean this or that".  Straight, unadulterated facts.

Thanks, Eric.  You're absolutely right - presenting the facts, such as their own statements, words, actions and documents are shocking enough.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: SocialTransparency on March 24, 2013, 08:58
Ya...I am trained in CBT and used it with nearly every client I worked with in one way or another. The first time I heard Narconon claiming to be using CBT I didn't know whether to laugh, cry, or set something on fire.

 Thank you for the comment Cigul.

When you stated you are trained in CBT, did you meet any of the following certification requirements?

Quote
The following criteria are required for certification:

A. Masters or doctoral degree in psychology, counseling, social work, psychiatry, or related field from a regionally accredited university.

B. Ten years of post-graduate experience at providing cognitive-behavioral therapy.  This experience must be verified by a supervisor or supervisors.

C. Three letters of recommendation from mental health professionals who are familiar with the applicant's cognitive-behavioral skills.

D. Successful completion of a certification program (all levels) in cognitive-behavioral therapy that is recognized by the NACBT, such as Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, Rational Behavior Therapy, Rational Living Therapy, or Cognitive Therapy.

Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 24, 2013, 09:28
Quote
What a terrific interview, Lucas! So much good information in there. You really topped all you have done previously with this interview. The part about the drug education program - people just don't know the enormity of Narconon's outreach and why it is so important to help expose what they are doing. Indoctrinating these children to think well of the name L Ron Hubbard... scarey!

Thank you for your continued help in expose Narconon and Scientology. Can't wait to see and hear what you and Eric have to say in the NBC show this friday!

Thank you, Mary!  Tom did a great job prepping for it and even went back in and recorded more on the CBT stuff after Gary Smith claimed Narconon used CBT.  For a guy who has spent more than 30 years working at Narconon, he really doesn't have much of a clue about the rest of the treatment industry.

You're welcome. Tom has the eagle eye for that kind of stuff. I've never heard a show where he's not prepared. I really enjoy his interviews because of that.

Quote
Narconon trying to align themselves with CBT is despicable.  Luke did a great job of exposing the truth on this BS line they were trying to push.

As for the NBC show, I must say that the piece will be full of truth.  Truth that they dont want told.  They can say anything they want about me or Luke.  The facts are the facts.  All I did was say "look at this", no allegations, no "I think they mean this or that".  Straight, unadulterated facts.

Thanks, Eric.  You're absolutely right - presenting the facts, such as their own statements, words, actions and documents are shocking enough.

We slay with facts!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on March 24, 2013, 09:43
Quote
Thank you, Mary!  Tom did a great job prepping for it and even went back in and recorded more on the CBT stuff after Gary Smith claimed Narconon used CBT.  For a guy who has spent more than 30 years working at Narconon, he really doesn't have much of a clue about the rest of the treatment industry.

Tom is a terrific interviewer. He also has a knack for choosing interesting topics and people to interview.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on March 24, 2013, 19:08
Thank you for the comment Cigul.

When you stated you are trained in CBT, did you meet any of the following certification requirements?

Check Cigul's profile.  We aren't all just ordinary riff-raff around here; we have some esteemed colleagues.   :D
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on March 28, 2013, 17:32
Just got confirmation that the new Rock Center piece on NBC will air next Friday, April 5th. 
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on March 28, 2013, 17:38
Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on March 28, 2013, 18:08
Does this mean I will get the title of "bitter defrocked apostate" now?
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: SocialTransparency on March 28, 2013, 19:27
Does this mean I will get the title of "bitter defrocked apostate" now?

 Yes >:D

(http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy75/sbysbys/o_zps05bd7e41.jpg)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on March 28, 2013, 19:35
I actually count 10 cookies there.  Thanks ST.  That is shirt worthy as well!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on March 28, 2013, 20:23
Does this mean I will get the title of "bitter defrocked apostate" now?

Pouw will have a statement soon.

By the way, Lucas Catton and Colin Henderson are slated for the AxXiom for Liberty program tomorrow evening from 6-8 pm. More info and call-in information found here http://networkedblogs.com/JJrt7

 
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on March 28, 2013, 22:33

Pouw will have a statement soon.

By the way, Lucas Catton and Colin Henderson are slated for the AxXiom for Liberty program tomorrow evening from 6-8 pm. More info and call-in information found here http://networkedblogs.com/JJrt7

Thanks!  I think it's 6 Central, 7 Eastern, just to be sure.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on March 28, 2013, 23:03

Pouw will have a statement soon.

By the way, Lucas Catton and Colin Henderson are slated for the AxXiom for Liberty program tomorrow evening from 6-8 pm. More info and call-in information found here http://networkedblogs.com/JJrt7

Thanks!  I think it's 6 Central, 7 Eastern, just to be sure.

You're right. Thanks!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 29, 2013, 01:32
Very exciting! Will be listening in :)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: cnhender on March 29, 2013, 13:32
6-8 PM Central CALL IN LINE 512-646-1984

Listen Live-LogosRadioNetwork.com click ‘Listen’ then choose your Internet speed. Logos Radio Network is a listener supported, free speech radio network and your contributions are vital but you do not have to be a subscriber in order to hear the show.

Listen live:
http://www.logosradionetwork.com/pm.cgi?action=show&temp=listen
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on March 29, 2013, 15:03
6-8 PM Central CALL IN LINE 512-646-1984

Listen Live-LogosRadioNetwork.com click ‘Listen’ then choose your Internet speed. Logos Radio Network is a listener supported, free speech radio network and your contributions are vital but you do not have to be a subscriber in order to hear the show.

Listen live:
http://www.logosradionetwork.com/pm.cgi?action=show&temp=listen

do you have to pay to hear it?
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on March 31, 2013, 20:00
For anyone who missed the program, it is archived here: http://feeds.feedburner.com/AxXiomForLiberty
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on April 06, 2013, 13:43
Thanks, mefree! That was a good show!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on May 29, 2013, 16:02
Where is Rena Weinberg?  I put in a call to ABLE International's office today...

http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/where-is-rena-weinberg/
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on May 29, 2013, 16:40
Where is Rena Weinberg?  I put in a call to ABLE International's office today...

http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/where-is-rena-weinberg/

Well, I posted a quote and a link from your article to Facebook groups People who are against Scientology's Rehabilitation Force (RPF)  https://www.facebook.com/groups/177463728938909/
and SPs 'r' US  at https://www.facebook.com/groups/325785144156523

Lets see what the SPs can do :)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on May 30, 2013, 00:49
Thanks, Mary!  I couldn't believe that her husband was the one who answered the phone. I hope she turns up soon.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Witnessman on May 30, 2013, 06:48
I find it absolutely astounding that private imprisonment is being officially condoned as a religious practice in the USA.  Given the intolerable living conditions experienced by the brain-washed unfortunates in the RFPs, there has to have been causally related deaths, I would think, although how would such ever become known?
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on May 30, 2013, 22:14
I find it absolutely astounding that private imprisonment is being officially condoned as a religious practice in the USA.  Given the intolerable living conditions experienced by the brain-washed unfortunates in the RFPs, there has to have been causally related deaths, I would think, although how would such ever become known?

There have been stories about bodies buried in the desert, but nothing ever substantiated.  There would have to be someone who knew about it, then decided to leave, and then wasn't afraid to tell about it for fear they'd be considered an accomplice.  This, while scientology would call them a "bitter apostate" and conjure up stories to keep people from paying any attention to them, while at the same time sending someone out to move the body.  And we critics, being the skeptics we are, would ask for proof before we'd believe it.   :D

Where is Rena Weinberg?  I put in a call to ABLE International's office today...

http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/where-is-rena-weinberg/

Well, I posted a quote and a link from your article to Facebook groups People who are against Scientology's Rehabilitation Force (RPF)  https://www.facebook.com/groups/177463728938909/

It says: You must log in to see this page.    -^#^-!   
This is one of the reasons I dislike Facebook; all this stuff that might be posted there, but will never make it into the search engines...

Nice blog post, Luke.  Thank goodness it will make it into the search engines.    ;D
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on May 30, 2013, 22:22
Facebook posts never get into google search engines... sorry I didn't realize you had to be logged in. At least not so at ESMB :)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on May 31, 2013, 13:02
Facebook posts never get into google search engines... sorry I didn't realize you had to be logged in. At least not so at ESMB :)

No problem; it's not your doing.   :)  Facebook is good for spreading information ephemerally, but not much good for documenting things on a more permanent basis.  It's also blocked by firewall in a lot of people's workplaces, and we all know 90% of internet reading happens when people are at work, right?   :D

Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on May 31, 2013, 15:13
lol!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on June 01, 2013, 11:22
I re-stumbled upon this last night.  It was Gary Smith's response to NBC back in April.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/z-pdf-archive/2013_Narconon_Arrowhead_Final_Statement.pdf  A couple things stood out for me.

First were these sentences:
Quote
Decades of research support the effectiveness of these treatment methods in drug and alcohol rehabilitation. We are dedicated to providing students a safe environment free from distractions and supervised by qualified trained personnel.

Um, no, decades of research do not support effectiveness.  In fact, the new series just released shows quite the opposite and proves Narconon has been twisting the figures to their own liking.

Also, I think anyone outside of Narconon/Scientology would have an issue with the description of employees as being "qualified trained personnel".  Trained by whom and for what?

The other thing I realized is that a few years ago Gary started calling himself the CEO of Narconon Arrowhead rather than the Executive Director.  I think this gives a little insight to the mindset of it being a for-profit corporation that makes millions.  Look it up for yourself - Executive Director is the title generally accepted for non-profits and CEO usually designates for-profit companies.  The fact that Arrowhead has had somewhere between $12 million and $24 million in cash in the bank is indicative of that.  This money is stashed, per L. Ron Hubbard policies governing churches of Scientology, in bank accounts labeled as the Main Account, the FSM Account, the General Liability Fund, the Building Fund Account, the Book Account, the Reserve Account and others.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: 10oriocookies on June 01, 2013, 12:05
I'd imagine those bank accounts are going to be drained pretty quick.  They can try to hype themselves all they want, doesnt change the fact that they have to travel through a legal shitstorm in the coming months.  What happens when people start getting taken away in handcuffs?  Where's the PR line for that?  It was our fault. :-*
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Escapee on June 03, 2013, 21:43
Just finished reading! Bought on amazon and I thought my iPad was gonna crap the bed on me cause I did not shut it off until the book was done lol! I'm reading "blown for good" now and it's another great read! I'm starting to notice who was really running the Narconon centers!!!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on June 03, 2013, 22:06
Just finished reading! Bought on amazon and I thought my iPad was gonna crap the bed on me cause I did not shut it off until the book was done lol! I'm reading "blown for good" now and it's another great read! I'm starting to notice who was really running the Narconon centers!!!

 3((:  , glad you enjoyed the book! I did, too! Blown For Good is an excellent book. too!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on June 04, 2013, 07:33
Just finished reading! Bought on amazon and I thought my iPad was gonna crap the bed on me cause I did not shut it off until the book was done lol! I'm reading "blown for good" now and it's another great read! I'm starting to notice who was really running the Narconon centers!!!

Thanks!  Yes, the ones pulling the strings are exactly the ones they deny having a connection to. 
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on June 24, 2013, 08:52
I just wanted to say thank you to all of you.  This helps explain my sort of absence of late.  I know I'll continue to be in contact with many of you through PMs, email, etc. but stepping back from boards and stuff.

http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/parting-shot/
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Damian DeWitt on June 24, 2013, 13:51
I just wanted to say thank you to all of you.  This helps explain my sort of absence of late.  I know I'll continue to be in contact with many of you through PMs, email, etc. but stepping back from boards and stuff.

http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/parting-shot/

Luke, thanks for your explanation. There is much to rejoice at much of which appears to be going on behind the scenes:

- "lowered income and paid client populations"
- "numerous current and former staff members who are coming forward (publicly and privately) to share information about the fraud, corruption and mistreatment of people"
-- "Without giving away any specifics, I can tell you that the criminal investigations are still in full-swing"
-- "The church must also fork over about $100 million to settle all of the lawsuits and pay fines."

I also appreciated your laying out the only two options for Narconon's business model - either come clean about its connections to Scientology or "embrace current mental health practitioners."

To me the most striking thing you have written is this:

"I’m no longer afraid of them."

I have to admit that I am saddened and bereft when I see ex-Scientologists writing that they are "moving on."

It is understandable particularly for young exes in their 20s and 30s who are building careers and families, but their disengagement at least publicly from the fight against the Miscavige regime is a great loss.

Off the top of my head I cite the following great anti-Miscavige warriors we have lost in this way:

- Vance Woodward
- Jeff Hawkins
- Bill at Ask The Scientologist
- Will Frye

Vance has deleted withdrawn his excellent book from Amazon and deleted all the posts on his blog. The others are no longer posting publicly.

There is no question here of an obligation of anyone to publicly engage in the fight. All of these men have contributed mightily and on that basis alone would earn the right to retire as heroes without regard for their right to move on with their lives for any reason whatsoever.

I do hope, though, that they would continue to make themselves available on a private basis to share their expertise and experience on specific worthy projects with potential to expose the criminality and abuse of the Miscavige regime.

Once again, my profound thanks for everything you have done and continue to do to expose Narconon.

 

Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on June 24, 2013, 14:52
I just wanted to say thank you to all of you.  This helps explain my sort of absence of late.  I know I'll continue to be in contact with many of you through PMs, email, etc. but stepping back from boards and stuff.

http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/parting-shot/

I think you have your priorities in order, Lucas. Thanks for all that you have done.

Wishing you the best!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: SocialTransparency on June 24, 2013, 14:53
I just wanted to say thank you to all of you.  This helps explain my sort of absence of late.  I know I'll continue to be in contact with many of you through PMs, email, etc. but stepping back from boards and stuff.

http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/parting-shot/

 :D :-thanks-: ||O|| L-O-: the word "scientology" will one day not be at the forefront of your thoughts my friend,now go out and play!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on June 24, 2013, 15:53
Thank you for your sentiments.  For many of us it is such a personal evolution, and it would be difficult for any one to fully understand the other, and I definitely appreciate the support and kind words.


I do hope, though, that they would continue to make themselves available on a private basis to share their expertise and experience on specific worthy projects with potential to expose the criminality and abuse of the Miscavige regime.

Once again, my profound thanks for everything you have done and continue to do to expose Narconon.

I am absolutely still available privately, and as I stated, and I don't intend to completely disappear.  Each person plays, has played and will play their roles in this entire evolution - that I am confident of.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on June 24, 2013, 15:54
I think you have your priorities in order, Lucas. Thanks for all that you have done.

Wishing you the best!

Thank you for your kindness and understanding!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on June 24, 2013, 15:55
:D :-thanks-: ||O|| L-O-: the word "scientology" will one day not be at the forefront of your thoughts my friend,now go out and play!

Haha, thank you, ST!  I will relish the day when that is fully achieved!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on June 24, 2013, 20:36
Ah, Luke, we'll miss you around here...  I hope you'll pop in from time to time, just to say hello to us, and let Narconon/Scientology know you're still there. 

You came at just the right time, and I'll forever be grateful for that.  I understand your desire to move on, oh boy, do I ever!  So go and enjoy whatever good comes your way - you've earned it!

 :OV--*
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: wynot on June 24, 2013, 23:15
Luke, it was an honor, and a pleasure to meet you at the get-together. I will forever be amazed at the guts it took for you to do the things you have done since you realized the truth of what Narconon is. I think you have more than made up for your part in the scam, and I will always wish you the best wherever life takes you in the future.

And I'd like to echo ethercat's hope you will visit us in the forum once in a while, and let us know how things are going for you.

'til next time!
Tony Williams (wynot)
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on June 25, 2013, 09:46
Ah, Luke, we'll miss you around here...  I hope you'll pop in from time to time, just to say hello to us, and let Narconon/Scientology know you're still there. 

You came at just the right time, and I'll forever be grateful for that.  I understand your desire to move on, oh boy, do I ever!  So go and enjoy whatever good comes your way - you've earned it!

 :OV--*
Thank you!  I will forever be grateful for your hospitality, and of course I'll still be around here and there.  Oh, and they'll certainly know that I'm still around...
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on June 25, 2013, 09:48
Luke, it was an honor, and a pleasure to meet you at the get-together. I will forever be amazed at the guts it took for you to do the things you have done since you realized the truth of what Narconon is. I think you have more than made up for your part in the scam, and I will always wish you the best wherever life takes you in the future.

And I'd like to echo ethercat's hope you will visit us in the forum once in a while, and let us know how things are going for you.

'til next time!
Tony Williams (wynot)

Thank you, Tony.  I will.  It was great meeting all of you as well!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on June 27, 2013, 23:07
I was a bit sad reading this but, of course, I understand. It's not like you are completely out of the picture but you will be missed here, never the less :)

Thanks for all you have done and are doing in the background, Luke. And best wishes on all your other endeavors and priorities.

((HUGGS))

Mary
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on July 20, 2013, 09:14
Ok, so I couldn't stay away long.  Less than a month, actually.  http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/keep-honking-im-reloading/
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: wynot on July 20, 2013, 09:21
There is a very old, very bad joke about how some places (people or things) grow on you - like a fungus! Welcome back compadre!  __WB__

'til next time;
wynot
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Damian DeWitt on July 20, 2013, 09:57
lulz.

Vance Woodward says he got addicted to Scientology as he writes in his book Addicted to Scientology.

He announced that he is moving on. He removed all his posts about Scientology and withdrew his book from Amazon.

I was sad to see him retire from the opposition.

But thank God I have my Kindle copy. I feel like I am a member of the Anti-Scientology Rare Books Club and own the equivalent of a Guttenberg Bible.

Since you have been in retirement from this lulzy and addictive opposition to the cult, Brent Whetstone has joined us.

He was a Buffalo Staffer who became a Christian minister and is broadcasting a series on Scientology this month on his weekly Saturday morning radio show. There is more info here on RFTTP. He is a great guy.

Topics for his show today:

"KSW, Leah Remini, Shelly Miscavige, a special interview with my lovely wife who told the church to shove it, and much much more!!!"

Today also Victoria Britton is giving a one hour interview about the death of her son Kyle Brennan on Colleen Sautez' X-Women show. It is at Noon Pacific and 3"00 pm Eastern. You can listen here:

 http://www.blogtalkradio.com/god-discussion/2013/07/20/kyle-victoria--a-story-of-injustice

Realizing that people coming new to Kyle's story would need background I created a bullet point list of events that led to Kyle's death. It is included in the show announcement I made at WWP:

https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/victoria-britton-interview-on-the-death-of-kyle-brennan-saturday-july-20-2013-noon-pacific-time.112435/#post-2333187

Finally, I read your "I'm back" article and the excerpt from your book, and it occurred to me to offer my help publicizing Catton Communications.

I think a Twitter account would be helpful. There is a small but growing band of anons and exes tweeting, and we can promote you.

Just a handful of us on Twitter and FB got Kerry Kennedy to "postpone" her appearance in May at Anne Archer's Artists For Human Rights soirée in Hollywood.

Let us know how we can help.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on July 20, 2013, 10:04
Ok, so I couldn't stay away long.  Less than a month, actually.  http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/keep-honking-im-reloading/

(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2756729856/hE90F4C2B/)

Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on July 20, 2013, 11:56
Luke, I'm so sad to read in your blog post that Ella is being used by the "church" as a tool to try to coerce you into shutting up.   :'(  It's not really surprising, though, kinda more like par for the cult. 

One would hope that any judge who knew the truth about how and why Ella is being used this way would rule in your favor.  I'll try to promote Catton Communications (http://cattoncommunications.com/) where I can.  I wish Narconon Reviews (http://narcononreviews.net) had the money to hire you.

Glad you're back on the TP scene, though.   oOoToOo5
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on July 21, 2013, 08:52
Thanks everybody, I truly appreciate it.  I know things will turn out well in the end, but the process sure is a bit rough!

However, if they think I gave them a swift kick in the nuts before, they'd better go buy a cup now.

Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Witnessman on July 21, 2013, 10:41
Thanks everybody, I truly appreciate it.  I know things will turn out well in the end, but the process sure is a bit rough!

However, if they think I gave them a swift kick in the nuts before, they'd better go buy a cup now.

Thank you, Luke!  Hang in there and keep doing exactly what you are doing ... courageously and heroically!

Also, excellent job on the recent statement to Tony O on the Stacy Dawn Murphy case:

Quote
A lot has happened since the tragic death of Stacy Murphy. Oklahoma passed a new law aimed at tighter regulations. Local and national media outlets have shed light on Arrowhead and other Narconon centers’ corruption. A dozen civil suits are pending in Oklahoma and a class action lawsuit has been filed in Georgia. Officials from multiple agencies in several states are conducting criminal investigations into various Narconon practices. The list could go on, and will. Soon Arrowhead will be like Narconon of Georgia is now, without a single client and no money coming in, as they’ve been below the level of viability for many months already. My condolences to Stacy’s family and the other families who are not forgotten. The church of Scientology and all of its tentacles will pay for their inhumane practices and criminal acts. Justice and retribution are just around the corner. 


By the way, I have no doubt at all that attorney Gary Richardson is very seriously kicking ass in that and the other cases he is pursuing.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: mefree on July 21, 2013, 11:29
Quote
By the way, I have no doubt at all that attorney Gary Richardson is very seriously kicking ass in that and the other cases he is pursuing.

Awesome news, indeed!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on July 21, 2013, 14:21
For you, Luke: http://narcononreviews.net/narconon/narconon-hurts-little-girl/

Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Kelly Irwin on July 21, 2013, 23:01

Nicely done. I hope you don't mind if I quote a piece of it here for Tipping Point readers.

Quote
Luke posted yesterday on his blog that his ex-wife Erica is trying to use their daughter Ella as a tool to silence him, to keep him from talking about the things Narconon doesn’t want people to know. What kind of mother would use a child like this?

Wake up, Erica! Luke is not the only one you’re hurting.

Luke displays a great degree of integrity in not bowing to the demands of his ex-wife and her “church”, although I’m quite sure it’s causing him a lot of pain to remain true to himself. He’s a father that his daughter will be proud of one day, when she can understand what happened.

Read Luke’s post, Keep Honking. I’m Reloading (http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/keep-honking-im-reloading/). Read about his and Ella’s father-daughter relationship, and the hateful words of Erica when Luke changed his mind about being a Scientologist, as told in a snippet from his book, Have You Told All (http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/)?

Then come up to present time: Catton Communications (http://cattoncommunications.com/), Luke’s company, needs clients so Luke can afford to hire an attorney and fight in court for his daughter. Her entire future depends on it.

Hire him, if you can use his services (http://cattoncommunications.com/). Buy his book (http://) if you haven’t already. If you have, buy one for a friend. If you’re a lawyer, please get in touch with Luke and offer him your services pro-bono. Let’s see if we can put this father and daughter together again.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: CoolHand on July 21, 2013, 23:21
Thanks again.  I hope that one day my daughter sees how I fought for freedom, truth and justice at the same time as our rights together and working to preserve her relationship with her mother as well.  Despite how I am treated, I feel children deserve as much love as possible - it's not their fault that some people aren't playing nice and shouldn't be deprived.  The Golden Rule applies.
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: ethercat on July 29, 2013, 18:18
I re-stumbled upon this last night.  It was Gary Smith's response to NBC back in April.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/z-pdf-archive/2013_Narconon_Arrowhead_Final_Statement.pdf  A couple things stood out for me.

First were these sentences:
Quote
Decades of research support the effectiveness of these treatment methods in drug and alcohol rehabilitation. We are dedicated to providing students a safe environment free from distractions and supervised by qualified trained personnel.

Um, no, decades of research do not support effectiveness.  In fact, the new series just released shows quite the opposite and proves Narconon has been twisting the figures to their own liking.

Also, I think anyone outside of Narconon/Scientology would have an issue with the description of employees as being "qualified trained personnel".  Trained by whom and for what?

The other thing I realized is that a few years ago Gary started calling himself the CEO of Narconon Arrowhead rather than the Executive Director.  I think this gives a little insight to the mindset of it being a for-profit corporation that makes millions.  Look it up for yourself - Executive Director is the title generally accepted for non-profits and CEO usually designates for-profit companies.  The fact that Arrowhead has had somewhere between $12 million and $24 million in cash in the bank is indicative of that.  This money is stashed, per L. Ron Hubbard policies governing churches of Scientology, in bank accounts labeled as the Main Account, the FSM Account, the General Liability Fund, the Building Fund Account, the Book Account, the Reserve Account and others.


Clark Carr refuted years ago what Gary Smith said just recently:
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/03/30/NorthPinellas/Detox_center_seeks_wi.shtml
Quote from: The SP Times
Narconon has done numerous internal studies to verify its claims, but Carr acknowledged they "are really not that solid." Narconon never has submitted in its 37 years in the United States to independent, clinical study necessary to silence critics, Carr said.


 :-D^\^\

He must have been able to see into the future - it's those OT powers, I tell ya!
Title: Re: Have You Told All? Inside My Time With Narconon and Scientology
Post by: Mary_McConnell on November 11, 2017, 20:35
MARBURG JOURNAL OF RELIGION, Vol. 19, No. 1 (2017)

Narconon, Scientology, and the Battle for Legitimacy
                   Stephen A. Kent

http://archiv.ub.uni-marburg.de/ep/0004/article/view/6495/7412
http://archiv.ub.uni-marburg.de/ep/0004/article/download/6495/7412

From today's Underground Bunker article:
Quote

Professor Kent takes on Narconon

There is none better in academia than University of Alberta professor Stephen Kent, and we’re happy to see that he’s written a new article on Narconon which is now online.

Here are a few lines from its abstract…

“I argue that Scientology initially wavered about acknowledging its program to be part of its ‘religion,’ but eventually dropped this claim as it attempted to get Narconon programs and teachings established in communities. I show, however, the intimate association between Scientology and Narconon courses, and present some of the evidence that the program lacks scientific validity – especially its Purification Rundown.” 
https://tonyortega.org/2017/11/11/scientology-is-dying-john-brousseau-on-the-decline-of-int-base-and-fate-of-shelly-miscavige/#more-43800