Reaching For the Tipping Point

Scientology Information => Atlanta, Georgia area => Scientology on a Local Level => Sandy Springs Zoning Opposition => Topic started by: ethercat on March 27, 2009, 10:55

Title: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on March 27, 2009, 10:55
Update: September 16, 2009
Planning Commission Meeting September 17, 2009 7pm
There was an 11th hour deferral, which sent the application back to the Planning Commission for the 3rd time.

An attorney for the neighborhood opposition has submitted a new set of conditions which the neighbors request, which contains a rebuttal to the lightly veiled RLUIPA threats made by the lawyer for the scientologists, Woodson Galloway.

Galloway has submitted his own set of suggested conditions, which concede or compromise very little, if anything.

Docs are on the Sandy Springs website, and as of yet are incomplete.  (Sandy Springs needs a better record-keeper.)

All of the files which begin with the number 4, here:
http://www.sandysprings-ga.org/agendas/PC/2009-0917/


Update: August 16, 2009
Mayor and City Council Meeting Tuesday August 18, 2009, at 6pm
This will be the final meeting...

Or will it...?



Update: July 12, 2009
Planning Commission Meeting this Thursday, July 16, at 7pm
Here is the agenda for the meeting: http://www.sandysprings-ga.org/agendas/PC/2009-0716/01_PCAGENDA_071609.pdf
5395 Roswell Rd. will be up first - be on time.



Update: June 29, 2009

I have been told there is a Planning Commission Meeting scheduled for July 16, at 7pm concerning the 5395 Roswell property.  Letters must be in before Thursday, July 2 to be included in this meeting's packet of information.



Update: June 18, 2009
The rezoning application has been deferred for 60 days.  The next meeting will be in August.

This means we have another two months to educate and involve the citizens who may either not have been aware that the rezoning was being considered, or not have been aware that there is anything wrong with scientology moving into their community.  Let's get our keyboards clattering again!



Update: June 2, 2009
Mayor and City Council Hearing on June 16, 2009 at 6pm!

Question sent to Linda Abaray:
Quote
When the Planning Commission voted to approve the 60 day deferral at the May 21 meeting, does that mean the deferral is a done deal, or will the Mayor and City Council rule officially on the deferral on June 16 at the next scheduled meeting?

Her response:
Quote
The Planning Commission only make recommendations to the Mayor and City
Council. The Council would have to approve the deferral. Please let me
know if you have any other questions.



Update: May 31, 2009
There is some question about whether the vote by the Planning Commission to approve the deferral means that it is approved, or if the Mayor and City Council will approve it (or not) at the June 16 meeting.  That puts into question whether there will be a June 16 meeting.  I am seeking clarification, and will post an update when I get it.



Update: May 29, 2009
Mayor and City Council Hearing on June 16, 2009 at 6pm!

Any paper letters should be in by June 2 to be considered at the hearing.
Email must be in by June 9 to be considered.
Emails should also be in by June 2.

Please see this post: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,125.msg494.html#msg494 (http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,125.msg494.html#msg494) and discuss.  Any ideas that can be included in correspondence is valuable.



Update: May 20, 2009
Planning Commission Meeting tomorrow at 7 pm!



Update: April 23, 2009
Meeting tonight at 6 pm!

Here are links to the scanned documents that CoS submitted to Sandy Springs:
Part 1 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZN9ZZMZE)
Part 2 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=G5PS2Q5L)



Update: April 13, 2009

Upcoming meeting: Community/Developer Resolution Meeting on April 23, at 6pm.

Some of us are through with the Government contact phase, and I think we are  past the homeowner's mailouts (Thanks Raven and Stu!).  If you haven't written to the Sandy Springs government yet, take some ideas from this thread and others, and get your letters in.  You can bet Scientology has written plenty of letters to them!  It's what they do.

Next phase is Community Contact - this includes churches and professionals in the area, as well as community groups.  These can include some of the concerns we have with Scientology, but be sure to stress that the primary issue is parking and traffic, and other issues in the zoning application (linked below).

Threads to discuss in:
Churches: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,28.0.html (http://index.php/topic,28.0.html)
Psyches! http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,31.0.html (http://index.php/topic,31.0.html)
Schools: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,30.0.html (http://index.php/topic,30.0.html)
Chamber of Commerce: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,33.0.html (http://index.php/topic,33.0.html)

We have also gotten copies of what Scientology submitted to the city for their rezoning; they are linked in this post: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,24.msg154.html#msg154 (http://index.php/topic,24.msg154.html#msg154)
and SocialTransparency has given us his concerns there as well.  These issues can also be addressed with the SS government people, in letters and at the meeting.

 
 Here is a copy of the Zoning Notice that was received:
 (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2658/sszoning.jpg)
 

 Meetings
 Note that there are 4 meetings relating to this potential zoning change which will allow the Church of Scientology to occupy this building.  It is important that we go to these meetings to show our numbers.

Address:
Sandy Springs City Hall
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350
770-730-5600

March 24, 2008 7pm - Community Zoning Info Meeting - This meeting has already been held.  See the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v3EAT3ynqw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v3EAT3ynqw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsAdOt6IVmg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsAdOt6IVmg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNAY-pPil8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNAY-pPil8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjdaoxtqs-Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjdaoxtqs-Q)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dm6lVZHx5I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dm6lVZHx5I)

On or before April 23, 2009  6pm - Community/Developer Resolution Meeting
To attend this meeting, you must contact Linda Abaray at 770-206-1577 and tell her you wish to attend.  The lawyer states that the meeting will occur on April 22 or 23, depending on which the applicant (CoS) chooses.

Ultrapoet has told us that the meeting is set for April 23, at 6pm, and that she didn't get the impression that it was an invite only meeting.  It still might be wise to call and verify that you don't need to notify Linda Abaray, particularly if you have something you wish to say at the meeting.

May 21, 2009 7pm - Planning Commission

June 16, 2009 6pm - Mayor and City Council

 Map
 Here pictures of the map presented at the meeting.
 (http://alley.ethercat.com/MapofArea1.png)
 
 (http://alley.ethercat.com/MapofArea2.png)

Mailouts
There are several mailouts addressing the zoning which need to be sent:Raven has collected information for us, which will be in separate threads.

In order of priorities:
1. Individualized letters to Sandy Springs government (The letters to each agency can be the same, but we should all write our own letters.  Post the letter you sent as a reply here, if you wish.)  The issues we need to address with these people are those of parking, traffic, and other issues that will impact the community.  This is not about the "religion" - they must be fair to all religions, even fake ones.  Stay on the target that will affect the community.

2. Letters to Homeowner's Associations - This needs to be one letter and info packet which we come up with, and snail mail to these people.  This can include more information about Scientology, but stick primarily to community issues.  In this letter, we need to urge them to write the people in priority 1 and to attend the zoning meetings.

3. Letters to Churches in the area - This can be a bit more about the "religion" since these people will talk to their members.  Many clergy members are already well informed about scientology, so don't write a 20 page essay.

4. Other letters (to be filled in later)
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SocialTransparency on March 27, 2009, 12:38
Greetings concerned citizens.

In this reply ,I will list the Sandy Springs Government entities that we need to contact. Please be aware there are procedural processes that must be met. Meaning decorum.

Athis time, within the context of my reply here, it is only directed @ the government entities. Any drafted letter here would cater to those entities.

A completely different letter/flyer will need to be drafted for churches, condo associations etc.

Let us whom are involved stay focused on just this one topic. Some of you are trying to multi task. That is a great thing, yet focus is needed on this topic. Other current issues should take a back seat IMHO @ this time.

I will now list important contacts and decorum. PLEASE READ CAREFULLY.

"Note: Boards, including the Mayor and City Council, DO NOT accept the submittal of material at meetings. Any material and/or emails that an applicant or the public wish any Board to receive and review must be submitted to the Planning and Zoning staff two (2) weeks prior to the scheduled meeting date to be included in the official package forwarded them."

Below is the list of entities that would need our informational letter sent too IMO.


1- The Planning Commission is an advisory board which reports its findings and recommendations to the Mayor and City Council. The board is involved in hearings involving rezonings, use permits, concurrent variances, and changes to zoning maps and ordinances.

Lee Duncan, Chair

Wayne Thatcher, Vice Chair

Donald Boyken

Susan Maziar

Al Pond

David Rubenstein

Roger Rupnow

2-The Board of Appeals is a quasi-legal board charged with hearing requests for variances from regulations of the Zoning Ordinance. The board bases decisions on the merits of applications with strict adherence to specific factors.

Mark King, Chair

Ron Carpinella, Vice Chair

Ruth Coan

Lane Frostbaum

Oswald Hill

Ken Moller

Paul Reale


3- The Sandy Springs Design Review Board is an advisory board that reviews applications for building and development based on their aesthetic, architectural and design merits with respect to the standards of the Sandy Springs Overlay District.

Colin Lichtenstein, Chair

Andy Porter, Vice Chair

Eric Gregory

Marlise Landeck

G. Melton Mobley

Yvonne Rizzo

Van Westmoreland

4-The city clerk is the official record keeper for the City and is appointed by the mayor and City Council. Responsibilities include recording and maintaining the council's official actions in minutes, coordinating and distributing the agenda, maintaining contracts, ordinances, resolutions and agreements and coordinating the records management and retention program for the City.

The city clerk attests signatures of mayor and Council and is official keeper of the City seal and affixes its impression on documents whenever required.

The city clerk oversees the adoption and publishing of the Code of Ordinances.

The city clerk also serves as the official absentee ballot clerk during city elections and helps to ensure that all open record requests are in accordance to the Open Records Act.

Michael D. Casey is the Interim City Clerk and may be reached at 770-730-5600.





5- If you have general comments or questions for the Planning and Zoning staff, or if you would like to send correspondence relating to a specific project or application to the members of the Boards listed below, please send your questions and/or comments to PZ@sandyspringsga.org.




NOW i will list the mayor and city council district members contact information.

MAYOR.mailto:eva.galambos@sandyspringsga.org

Doug MacGinnitie, City Council, District 1
doug.macginnitie@sandyspringsga.org

Dianne Fries, City Council, District 2
dianne.fries@sandyspringsga.org

Rusty Paul City Council, District 3
rusty.paul@sandyspringsga.org

Ashley Jenkins, City Council, District 4
ashley.jenkins@sandyspringsga.org

Tiberio “Tibby” DeJulio , City Council, District 5 ........District 5 is impacted by the variance.
tiberio.dejulio@sandyspringsga.org

Karen Meinzen McEnerny, City Council, District 6.......District 6 is impacted by the variance.
karen.mcenerny@sandyspringsga.org


 It is the intention of this poster to stay away from the (RELIGIOUS) aspect of this variance @ this time. When you contact anyone please reference the below.

 REZONING PETITION

APPLICATION# RZ09-001/CV09-001         PROPERTY ADDRESS  5395 Roswell Road

PETITIONER: Church of Scientology.

CURRENT Zoning: O-I Conditional

REQUEST: To rezone the subject property from O-I ( Office Industrial) Conditional TO O-I to maintain the existing structure AND TO ALLOW FOR A CHURCH , WITH CONCURRENT VARIANCES.




STAFF CONTACT; L Abaray  770-206-1577  <<<<<<<<< IMPORTANT

 ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)


Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on March 28, 2009, 01:14
Thank you, SocialTransparency, for all the info!

Here is the letter I've written, as it is now, though I may change it after I sleep on it ("Dear Sirs" will be replaced with individual names):

Dear Sirs,

I am writing to voice my opinion of the proposed zoning change, APPLICATION # RZ09-001/CV09-001 at 5395 Roswell Road, the corner of Roswell Rd. and Glenridge.  As you know, this location is a highly trafficked and dangerous intersection.  In my opinion, it would be a mistake to allow the Church of Scientology to open a new location at that intersection.  I have watched a video of the Community Zoning Info Meeting on the internet, and, therefore, am aware of the answers given by the attorney representing the church to questions asked by citizens.  Some of the answers given  contradict other information I have seen elsewhere.

The attorney said that the church would use only 1400 square feet of the 46,000, for the sanctuary, and the rest of the building would be offices, classrooms, and one-on-one counseling rooms.  He said that the 83 parking spaces, of which 32 are on the easement between the post office and the 5395 Roswell building, would be ample for the sanctuary.  The remaining 44,600 square feet is quite a lot of space.  Divided into generous sized 20' x 20' rooms, that would allow for over 100 rooms. 

The attorney stated in the meeting that the church has only about 100 members.  I beg to differ; the enclosed printout from the church's web site shows that at least 265 members have donated toward the building.  The link is: http://www.atlantaidealorg.com/donors.html

In addition, an article written by the Gwinnett Daily Post in March of 2008 quotes Deb Danos, the Public Relations Officer for the church, as follows:

Quote
Deb Danos, an Atlanta Scientologist who also serves as the local church's media contact, said the metro area is home to more Scientologists than you might think, and that their ranks are swelling.

"We have about 600 active members, 200 that are regular attendees, and then on our rolls there have been literally thousands," Danos said. "I would say pretty close to 10,000 that have joined since the inception of the organization in Atlanta."

She added that membership is "definitely" on the rise.

The link is: http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?SectionID=34&SubSectionID=48&ArticleID=11837&TM=42592.25

If membership is between the 200 and 600 figures stated in the article, and the church expects to grow, where will these people park? 

The attorney says that the members do not attend traditional services at one time on Sunday morning.  The enclosed photo, taken in December 2008, shows the sign hanging under their main sign at the current church, which says “SUNDAY SERVICE 11:00 AM ALL WELCOME.”  To me, that says that they do, in fact, hold services, and that they welcome the public to the services.  Another thing which the sign shows, contrary to the statement by the attorney that the bookstore only serves the membership, is that they do encourage the public to visit their bookstore.

Another concern is that if the church continues to grow, and finds it necessary to add parking spaces, where will they be  added?  There appears to be no area for more parking to be built, whether it would be additional ground level spaces, or a parking deck.  Underground parking would also seem to be problematic.  Given these issues, I urge you to deny the zoning change.

Thank you for your consideration,

Anyone, feel free to use it as a sample, but we should all present different points - after all, we don't want to look like we're running a scientology-style letter writing campaign.   :D
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on March 28, 2009, 08:52
I agree. A very nice detail on membership for a packet of information, though.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on March 28, 2009, 12:15
Here's my letter. I sent it to three of the city council members.

Ms. Fries,
I thought you might be interested in this rezoning application (attached) and some additional information.

I am a former citizen of Sandy Springs who spent my formative years there. I also worked in Sandy Springs as an adult and have friends who live in the community.

I was very concerned when I heard about Scientology's plans to make the building at 5395 Roswell Rd. one of their Ideal Orgs. From what I understand, one of the purposes of an Ideal Org is to expand and recruit for Scientology.

You may want to view these videos of the recent informational meeting on the planned rezoning. Many of the neighbors asked very good questions about parking and traffic in the area which is problematic (linked below).
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/smyrna-ga/TO58QASGEMR3A3ABQ

According to nearby neighbors they recently witnessed a Scientology gathering at the building that nearly filled up the existing parking spots of about 83. I think one of the neighbors said there were about 2 parking spots not filled that night and they are planning to grow. There are many accidents at Glenridge and Roswell and I know this was one of the concerns.

Additionally, Scientology's presence in other cities has made many of its residents and businesses none too happy.

See articles included below on Clearwater's experience.


=======================================

Letters: Scientology's grip hurts downtown Clearwater - St. Petersburg Times
Letters: Scientology's grip hurts downtown Clearwater
May 27, 2008
http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/letters/article525625.ece (http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/letters/article525625.ece)
I think these might be "letters to the editor".

=======================================

Clearwater merchants upset over anti-Scientology protests - St. Petersburg Times
Clearwater merchants upset over anti-Scientology protests
May 14, 2008
http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article503671.ece (http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article503671.ece)

The "petition" mentioned in the article (petition written by downtown business owners) was actually written by Scientologists pretending to be regular Joe American business people. They were exposed by a one-by-one examination of the signatures on the petition by volunteer ex-scientologists.

Scientology in Clearwater - Project to identify all downtown Clearwater businesses
section titled "Petition to Clearwater Mayor by Scientologist-friendly businesses"
http://www.scientologyinclearwater.com/downtownaddresses.html

=======================================

Tampabay: The unperson
The unperson: Scientologists who cross their religion can be declared suppressive persons, shunned by peers and ostracized by family.
June 25, 2006
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/06/24/Tampabay/The_unperson.shtml (http://www.sptimes.com/2006/06/24/Tampabay/The_unperson.shtml)
=======================================

Scientology's town: As Scientologists launch unprecedented expansion, downtown Clearwater's identity is at stake. A two-part special report
July 18, 2004
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/18/Tampabay/Scientology_s_town.shtml (http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/18/Tampabay/Scientology_s_town.shtml)

=======================================

Clearwater Sun alum says City Desk clerk was a spy for Scientology
Clearwater Sun alum says City Desk clerk was a spy for Scientology
August 04, 2008
http://blogs.tampabay.com/media/2008/08/clearwater-sun.html (http://blogs.tampabay.com/media/2008/08/clearwater-sun.html)

=======================================

Tampabay: Is he a slumlord or ethical specialist?
Is he a slumlord or ethical specialist? The man who owns an apartment building evacuated by officials for safety violations also holds Scientology’s highest status.
May 11, 2006
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/11/Tampabay/Is_he_a_slumlord_or_e.shtml (http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/11/Tampabay/Is_he_a_slumlord_or_e.shtml)

=======================================
Important video interview
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5704547942523554352&q=5704547942523554352&ei=tLgrSMbeJ4SE4gKkw7niCQ
Gabe Cazares Interview - 44:14 - Apr 8, 2006

This interview features Gabe Cazares who was Mayor of Clearwater, Florida when Scientology snuck into the city under an assumed name. Gabe courageously took them on and was savagely attacked by Scientology in numerous covert operations which were later uncovered when the FBI raided Scientology's headquarters. Meet Gabe Cazares - Former Mayor of Clearwater, Florida Also in the video is Wayne Shelor. At the time of the interview, Wayne worked as a journalist. He later would become the PR man for the Clearwater Police Department.

Thanks for your time and consideration of this information,
Me
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on March 28, 2009, 13:29
Response:

thank you for contacting me.  I will keep your viewpoints in mind as we deliberate on this application.     Karen
 

Karen Meinzen McEnerny

District 6, City Council of Sandy Springs

4604 Meadow Valley Drive

Sandy Springs, GA  30342

 

cell 404-358-0068

Off 404-851-1944

karen.mcenerny@sandyspringsga.org   
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SocialTransparency on March 28, 2009, 15:48
Mefree. You just rocked my world.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SocialTransparency on March 28, 2009, 16:30
Thank you, SocialTransparency, for all the info!

Here is the letter I've written, as it is now, though I may change it after I sleep on it ("Dear Sirs" will be replaced with individual names):

Dear Sirs,

I am writing to voice my opinion of the proposed zoning change, APPLICATION # RZ09-001/CV09-001 at 5395 Roswell Road, the corner of Roswell Rd. and Glenridge.  As you know, this location is a highly trafficked and dangerous intersection.  In my opinion, it would be a mistake to allow the Church of Scientology to open a new location at that intersection.  I have watched a video of the Community Zoning Info Meeting on the internet, and, therefore, am aware of the answers given by the attorney representing the church to questions asked by citizens.  Some of the answers given  contradict other information I have seen elsewhere.

The attorney said that the church would use only 1400 square feet of the 46,000, for the sanctuary, and the rest of the building would be offices, classrooms, and one-on-one counseling rooms.  He said that the 83 parking spaces, of which 32 are on the easement between the post office and the 5395 Roswell building, would be ample for the sanctuary.  The remaining 44,600 square feet is quite a lot of space.  Divided into generous sized 20' x 20' rooms, that would allow for over 100 rooms. 

The attorney stated in the meeting that the church has only about 100 members.  I beg to differ; the enclosed printout from the church's web site shows that at least 265 members have donated toward the building.  The link is: http://www.atlantaidealorg.com/donors.html

In addition, an article written by the Gwinnett Daily Post in March of 2008 quotes Deb Danos, the Public Relations Officer for the church, as follows:

Quote
Deb Danos, an Atlanta Scientologist who also serves as the local church's media contact, said the metro area is home to more Scientologists than you might think, and that their ranks are swelling.

"We have about 600 active members, 200 that are regular attendees, and then on our rolls there have been literally thousands," Danos said. "I would say pretty close to 10,000 that have joined since the inception of the organization in Atlanta."

She added that membership is "definitely" on the rise.

The link is: http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?SectionID=34&SubSectionID=48&ArticleID=11837&TM=42592.25

If membership is between the 200 and 600 figures stated in the article, and the church expects to grow, where will these people park? 

The attorney says that the members do not attend traditional services at one time on Sunday morning.  The enclosed photo, taken in December 2008, shows the sign hanging under their main sign at the current church, which says “SUNDAY SERVICE 11:00 AM ALL WELCOME.”  To me, that says that they do, in fact, hold services, and that they welcome the public to the services.  Another thing which the sign shows, contrary to the statement by the attorney that the bookstore only serves the membership, is that they do encourage the public to visit their bookstore.

Another concern is that if the church continues to grow, and finds it necessary to add parking spaces, where will they be  added?  There appears to be no area for more parking to be built, whether it would be additional ground level spaces, or a parking deck.  Underground parking would also seem to be problematic.  Given these issues, I urge you to deny the zoning change.

Thank you for your consideration,

Anyone, feel free to use it as a sample, but we should all present different points - after all, we don't want to look like we're running a scientology-style letter writing campaign.   :D
Very well written. I would add that there IS NO future plan tabled by C of S to show the council how it will handle future growth. I know you kind of mentioned this ,but it needs to be brought up as much as possible. Also add the links to my" GovTransparency" Youtube site.

I have BLOCKED all anon type comments. Hell i have blocked all comments. This way the page would be gentle for those public officials and citizens who visit it as a source of information.

I am currently doing another video. I ASK everyone to send me ANY links that you think would be of interest to the general public. I will put all those links in a scrolling like video.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SocialTransparency on March 28, 2009, 16:34
Response:

thank you for contacting me.  I will keep your viewpoints in mind as we deliberate on this application.     Karen
 

Karen Meinzen McEnerny

District 6, City Council of Sandy Springs

4604 Meadow Valley Drive

Sandy Springs, GA  30342

 

cell 404-358-0068

Off 404-851-1944

karen.mcenerny@sandyspringsga.org
MeFree. The other 3 links are showing. It would be of great benefit to send your letter to ALL of the ZONING board members. The more the merrier.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on March 29, 2009, 00:29
ST, I Have made the changes you suggested, as shown below.  I also changed the words "the attorney" to Mr. Woodson Galloway the first time used, and Mr. Galloway for the following times.

Thank you, SocialTransparency, for all the info!

...would be a mistake to allow the Church of Scientology to open a new location at that intersection.  I have watched a video of the Community Zoning Info Meeting on the internet at http://www.youtube.com/GovTransparency and, therefore, am aware of the answers given by the attorney representing the church, Mr. Woodson Galloway, to questions...

...appears to be no area for more parking to be built, whether it would be additional ground level spaces, or a parking deck.  Underground parking would also seem to be problematic.  Mr. Galloway offers no parking plan for future growth, while also telling us that the church plans to grow.

Given these issues, I urge you to deny the zoning change.

I am currently doing another video. I ASK everyone to send me ANY links that you think would be of interest to the general public. I will put all those links in a scrolling like video.

What types of links are you looking for?  Specifically links on what happens when scientology moves into a neighborhood, or links like this:
http://www.xenu-directory.net/ (http://www.xenu-directory.net/)
?

Also, I found these people who ought to receive a letter also; Sandy Springs Public Works: http://www.sandyspringsga.org/tPanelRelatedLinks.aspx?P=800356d24cdf466babf4e6ed02788ed2 (http://www.sandyspringsga.org/tPanelRelatedLinks.aspx?P=800356d24cdf466babf4e6ed02788ed2)

One of the city people in the meeting had said that the traffic dept. would be making the recommendation to city hall and the mayor.
 
It says:
Quote
The Public Works Department is responsible for the street transportation system which includes road and right of way maintenance, traffic engineering, transportation planning and capital improvement implementation. Public works also contributes to the Morgan Falls Recycling center and will implement a franchise system for private waste management services in Sandy Springs. To ensure prompt response to reports from residents, the public works department has a Citizen Response Coordinator whose responsibility it is to administer all citizen responders in the area of Public Works.

The names are:
Angelia Parham, P.E., Director
and
Jon Drysdale, Deputy Director

I'll be addressing all of mine tomorrow and sending them on Monday, paper mail and email.

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on March 29, 2009, 16:31
3- The Sandy Springs Design Review Board is an advisory board that reviews applications for building and development based on their aesthetic, architectural and design merits with respect to the standards of the Sandy Springs Overlay District.
... ... ...
G. Melton Mobley
... ... ...

http://mobley-doyle.com/LMD/Mel_Mobley.html
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on March 29, 2009, 16:51
I'm posting this in case it helps anyone with addressing envelopes or making labels for envelopes.

Ms. Angelia Parham, P.E.
Director of Public Works
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Jon Drysdale, Deputy Director
Director of Public Works
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Lee Duncan, Chair
Planning Comission
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Wayne Thatcher, Vice Chair
Planning Comission
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Donald Boyken
Planning Comission
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Ms. Susan Maziar
Planning Comission
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Al Pond
Planning Comission
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. David Rubenstein
Planning Comission
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Roger Rupnow
Planning Comission
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Ms. Nancy Leathers, Director
Dept. of Community Development
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Christopher S. Miller, Deputy Director
Dept. of Community Development
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Mark King, Chair
Board of Appeals
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Ron Carpinella, Vice Chair
Board of Appeals
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Ms. Ruth Coan
Board of Appeals
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Lane Frostbaum
Board of Appeals
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Oswald Hill
Board of Appeals
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Ken Moller
Board of Appeals
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Paul Reale
Board of Appeals
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Colin Lichtenstein, Chair
Design Review Board
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Andy Porter, Vice Chair
Design Review Board
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Eric Gregory
Design Review Board
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Ms. Marlise Landeck
Design Review Board
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. G. Melton Mobley
Design Review Board
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Ms. Yvonne Rizzo
Design Review Board
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Van Westmoreland
Design Review Board
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mayor Eva Galambos
City of Sandy Springs
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Doug MacGinnitie
Sandy Springs City Council, District 1
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Ms. Dianne Fries
Sandy Springs City Council, District 2
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Rusty Paul
Sandy Springs City Council, District 3
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Ms. Ashley Jenkins
Sandy Springs City Council, District 4
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. Tiberio “Tibby” DeJulio
Sandy Springs City Council, District 5
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Ms. Karen Meinzen McEnerny
Sandy Springs City Council, District 6
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350

Mr. John F. McDonough
Sandy Springs City Manager
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Raven on March 30, 2009, 18:36
    Dear_____,
 
I am writing to you over the mater of the zoning of the property located at 5395 Roswell Road, zoning request number RZ09-001/CV09-001. I am very concerned about the burdens this rezoning will inflict upon the citizens of Sandy Springs.  I believe Scientology will become a tax burden to the city for multiple reasons.  I believe we have been misinformed about the size of the congregation, its ability to support itself and its impact upon the community through traffic and parking concerns.
 
I attended the meeting on March, 24 2009 in which the attorney for Scientology stated only part of the building would be rezoned so they could move in.  This allows a loophole for them to move in while not having adequate resources to handle their congregation.   The weekend, before Scientology held an event at the building and the parking lot was 2 car places short of being full. The lawyer stated Scientology did not have normal services like most Churches.  However, one scientology website: http://www.scientology-atlanta.org/introsrv.htm#sunday (http://www.scientology-atlanta.org/introsrv.htm#sunday) lists them off as having an 11:00am Sunday Service. The lawyer also stated he was unsure of the number of current Scientology members and then later said around 100. However, last year Deb Danos the media contact for Scientology said the membership was 200 regular attendees and 600 active members (http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?SectionID=34&SubSectionID=48&ArticleID=11837&TM=42592.25 (http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?SectionID=34&SubSectionID=48&ArticleID=11837&TM=42592.25) ) Clearly the 83 parking spaces the group said they can get by with is not enough.  How many of the 83 parking spaces are going to be handicap or on the easement they share with the local post office?  Furthermore, it was brought up this group would have a bookstore, sauna, and lots of offices in it.  I believe this would also increase the traffic and parking problem.  The lawyer was unable to confirm if other Scientology groups such as W.I.S.E, Applied Scholastics, or CCHR would move in. The hours they currently operate are also of concern: http://www.scientology-atlanta.org/ shows they are open Monday-Friday 8:30am-10:00pm and 8:30am -6:30pm Saturday-Sunday.  This will lead to increased traffic issues on an extremely busy street. I believe they have purchased a building and are now trying to force it to fit their needs.
 
Furthermore, I believe Scientology may not be able to support this building project or have a positive impact on the community. According to the Scientology’s local website: http://atlantaidealorg.com/home.html (http://atlantaidealorg.com/home.html) they have yet to raise all the money needed to for their building project.  Of interest is that this a free website paid for by the advertising on the side.  Most organizations, even smaller ones, can pay for their own website without ads on it.  Currently, Scientology has paid for some very lavish expansions, but also ignored large parts of their building projects.  I think you might find the following article interesting: http://tampabay.com/news/religion/article986057.ece (http://tampabay.com/news/religion/article986057.ece) In this article it also discuss how the Scientologists changed many things they told the local government in regard to the use of the building.  Also of interest is the way the local Scientologists did not intermix in with the local businesses and employment of outsiders. All money went outside the local area. I’m also including information about the tax liens filed against Narconon of GA http://www.gsccca.org/search/Lien/liennamesselected_full.asp?FSChange=1 (http://www.gsccca.org/search/Lien/liennamesselected_full.asp?FSChange=1) and http://www.gsccca.org/search/Lien/liennamesselected.asp (http://www.gsccca.org/search/Lien/liennamesselected.asp) This is another Scientology group in financial hardship
 
I urge you to reconsider allowing the rezoning of this building.
Thank You   
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Stutroup on March 30, 2009, 18:58
I know it's a bit long, but I think it's an idea to shoot this email to the mayor.  I tried to be thorough, and took an angle that Scientology will keep people from moving to that community.

And I did use YouTube links for some citations, but some of this is only things I could find on YouTube, and I think some things are creepier in LRH's voice! :D

===================================================

March 30, 2009

Mayor Eva Galambos
Morgan Falls Office Park
7840 Roswell Road, Building 500
Sandy Springs, GA 30350
770-730-5600

Dear Mayor Galambos:

I am writing this with sincere regret.  Although I am still planning a move to Georgia, my consideration of the lovely city of Sandy Springs as an option is wavering.  This is because of one issue: the possibility that the organization Scientology is attempting to move into your fair city.  Though there has apparently been only one hearing with the zoning board, it means there is one more step towards their active presence staining your home town.

Before I continue, I do recognize how much bias I am leaving in this letter.  However, I believe that once you know the problems caused by Scientology, you may be dissuaded from allowing them into Sandy Springs.

Firstly, a concern every city should have is whether the entities operating there are in good standing.  However, Scientology will not remain this way.  They are well known for neglecting bills, with what is known as their "Dateline Paying" system (1), which will leave them perpetually delinquent in their payments to whomever they owe.  However, their policy on collecting bills for their services is much different (2).  They require full payment immediately for any service which they offer; and their services are far from cheap (3).  This policy to delay payment, and refuse to pay anyone who asks to be paid for labor, will lead to much strife within your city (4).  Surely, that cannot be good for your local economy!

But I digress.  There are other issues which have been brought to my attention about this group which is discouraging me from considering residing in Sandy Springs.  I found out that Scientology is only just now applying for zoning at what it calls its Ideal Org (short for organization).  However, while visiting friends who live in the area, I have found out that they have used the facility before for functions, which have nearly filled the parking lot.  This brings up several concerns.  Firstly, I have read claims online that state that there are over 600 active members in the Atlanta area (5).  But after estimating parking from a satellite image, it seems the lot has fewer than 90 spaces.

This brings yet more questions.  Firstly, how do they get away with having functions which they haven't yet been given permission to have by the zoning board?  Secondly, how can 600 people, 300 cars with the full benefit of the doubt, fit into fewer then 90 parking spaces?  Where else would they park?  the only adjacent parking is the U.S. Post Office next door, which seems an unwise choice.  And what about their special events?  Many more people than usual will be expected to arrive than usual.

Beyond all of this, I need to talk about the state of the building.  Scientology has owned the building for a while now, and millions of dollars have supposedly been fed into it.  Yet the outside of the structure is becoming ever more an eyesore!  There are more shutters in pieces and on the ground than on the windows, it seems.  They're in piles at the door!  This should be unacceptable for a city as otherwise beautiful as yours.  This is not so uncommon to Scientology.  Their local branch of Narconon is in deplorable shape on the outside.  But back to Sandy Springs, just see how often the long grass has been an issue at their Ideal Org location.  We have seen the grass very high there.  You may be thinking that it's because they have not been occupying the building.  But the parties that have been there show otherwise (which takes back to applying for zoning after they've been using the building for their purposes).

While searching for information about the zoning meetings online, I ran across a series of videos on YouTube with the entire section with Scientology (6).  At one point, the lawyer won't allow the Scientologists to answer questions regarding a few of their organization's front groups (7).  I find this very odd, considering it implies that the building will be used to house much more than what Scientology is requesting zoning for.  They seem to be dodging a great amount in this issue.

Now that I have covered much of the recent issues, I can cover more about Scientology, which you may not know.  I do not attack their belief of aliens and all.  I think it's their right.  But I do criticize many of their policies.  One of these is their founder's command, basically, to take over governments (8).  Please, pay close attention to the notes and descriptions of these, as defining every bit of it would take a very long time.

There is much more I could go on about, such as Fair Game, the declaration of Suppressive Persons, their commanded abuse of the legal system as a tool to harass, etc.  But I will leave more questions for you to decide to ask.  Also, all of this is easily found on the Internet.  A few web sites (9) may be a great help for finding more information about them.  I do encourage you to look more into this organization before you grant permission to destroy your town.  They will certainly encourage me to choose another when I move there.

Sincerely,

Stuart Troup



(1) http://www.lisamcpherson.org/cos/construction.htm
  Hubbard wrote that the church was to use a "Dateline Paying" method of paying bills, which means a date in the past is selected according to how much money the department has, and then any bills due past that date are paid. "Tell Accounts, 'Give me every bill we owe prior to August (three months ago).' Add these up. Let's say the amount exceeds our cash. Cut it back one month. Order 'Write cheques for every bill up to July 1.' (That's four months back.) That we can cover fully with cash." (HCOPL of 28 January 1965, "How to Maintain Credit Standing & Solvency") If important bills are overdue and threats are coming in, "Still try to use the above system. But if you can't, pay it and retard other bills accordingly. And thereafter, don't pay that outfit's bill on any other terms than threatened trouble... Be very proud and haughty about bills. NEVER propitiate."

(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_Finance
In contrast to Hubbard's policy on creditors, his policy on payment for services mandates prepayment. From HCOPL 27 November 1971 Issue III, "FREE SERVICES = FREE FALL" (all text in this policy letter is in capital letters): "An Auditor or Course Supervisor delivering a service to an individual without having to hand a fully paid invoice for that service and who does not send the person back to the registrar to be signed up for that service is: A. Covertly robbing his fellow staff members of their pay, and B. In a condition of Treason to his org, and is so assigned."

(3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_as_a_business#Costs
see also http://www.sweenytod.com/cos/pricelist.html

(4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfGoZR-Mzzg

(5) http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?SectionID=34&SubSectionID=48&ArticleID=11837&TM=42592.25

(6) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsAdOt6IVmg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNAY-pPil8&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjdaoxtqs-Q&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dm6lVZHx5I&feature=channel

(7) http://www.whyaretheydead.net/krasel/frontgroups.html

(8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S31usQVOIBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hmubzkJjTg

(9) http://www.xenu.net
http://www.lermanet.com/
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/
http://www.exscientologykids.com/
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/
http://www.studytech.org/home.php
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on March 30, 2009, 19:56
Very nice, Stu. 
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on March 30, 2009, 22:08
My 33 paper letters with printed attachments are in the mail.

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Stutroup on March 31, 2009, 19:04
My 33 paper letters with printed attachments are in the mail.

I didn't REALIZE it was a contest for content :P

(of course I'm kidding!)

I didn't realize quite so much had been gathered!
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on March 31, 2009, 19:12
Great work EC!
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: The Entity on March 31, 2009, 19:18
Great work one and all.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on March 31, 2009, 19:29
I'm going to send my letter to a few others.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Raven on March 31, 2009, 20:26
I'm going to go pick up the zoning stuff tomorrow.  However I will be on my say out of town right after I pick it up.

my stuff is sent through email.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on March 31, 2009, 22:04
Thanks for the kudos, there went my weekend.   :-\   Oh, well.   ;D   
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on March 31, 2009, 23:25
Exactly my thinking. :-\
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Stutroup on April 02, 2009, 20:47
Draft for the HOAs etc.  It needs some help, LOTS of help, especially at the Clearwater paragraph:

Quote
<<recipient address>>

<<date>>

Dear NAME:

We would like to bring to your attention something which is not very well publicized: a zoning request within Sandy Springs by Scientology.  While you may or may not care what they do, that is not what I am writing about.  We would rather address the issues of traffic and parking at their location.  We would like to request as many Sandy Springs residents to be at the remaining meetings, and give their opinions on this situation.

Last year, Deb Danos was quoted in an article stating the following:  "We have about 600 active members, 200 that are regular attendees, and then on our rolls there have been literally thousands," Danos said. "I would say pretty close to 10,000 that have joined since the inception of the organization in Atlanta." ( http://tinyurl.com/djreg8 [1])  And the group only plans to grow.

The building which is in question, located at 5395 Roswell Road, has 83 total parking spaces for their members.  The location, the corner of Roswell Rd. and Glenridge, is a very busy intersection already.  An additional 200 cars pouring out of the 11am Sunday service would wreak havoc on traffic.  Besides this, where will so many people park?  Additionally, in the previous City Council meeting, it was stated that the building is expected to be frequented by many of their members during their very long business hours; the parking lot will often be nearly full, with constant in-flow and out-flow from the parking area, almost all leading to the main road.

Scientology has caused trouble elsewhere when they move into areas.  One prime example is Clearwater, Florida.  When Scientology moved in, the town changed dramatically for the worse:
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/18/Tampabay/Scientology_s_town.shtml
http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/letters/article525625.ece

The dates for the meetings are:

For the Planning Commission:  May21, 2009, 7pm

For the Mayor and Council:  June 16, 2009, 6pm

They will all be at City Hall:
Sandy Springs City Hall at Morgan Hall Office Park
7840 Roswell Road Building 500
Sandy Springs

The Community Zoning Information Meeting has already passed, this past 24th of March.

Sincerely,
SENDER

[1] full URL:  http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?SectionID=34&SubSectionID=48&ArticleID=11837&TM=42592.25

It's just about a page long in 12 point Times New Roman, for the sake of info.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SocialTransparency on April 03, 2009, 08:57
Stu.

Maybe you could add that the C of S of Ga INC has NOT presented ANY plans to address this growth or parking issue. Questions like, Will they build a multi deck parking garage? An underground parking garage? or bus people to and from the location? And how?

When dealing with an HOA group you have to do a little thinking for them.

600 active sci members. Be very generous and lets say, 4 members per car. 600 active members divided by 4 per car equals 150 NEEDED PARKING SPACES!

46,000 SQ FT building. 83 MAX available parking spaces. Subtract those 83-spaces from the 150 needed to satisfy JUST the above potential 600 attendees equals 67 non existent parking spaces.

Where are those 67 parking spaces coming from?

THEN ATTACH the CURRENT zoning ordinance for that property to your HOA letter that Raven has . THAT is the reason the building CAN NOT be occupied @ this time.

Lack of parking for a 46,000 SQ FT office building. What C of S of Ga INC is attempting to do here is come into the building" Soft" i.e meaning utilizing just 1400 SQ FT of the building in order to MEET the parking requirements set down by their app for the variance.

Once C of S of Ga INC occupies the building, it will grow unchecked. Time and again, both the city of Sandy Springs and the local citizenry will have to address repeated demands from C of S of Ga INC pertaining to this property, costing both the city and community time,money and resources.

Couple this lack of parking for JUST religious meetings and counciling WITH the possibility that W.I.S.E, ABLE,CCHR, Applied Scholastics and a Book store could also add to this issue.


Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Raven on April 06, 2009, 14:11
I am happy to mail these out, but I can't afford to make copies of all the stuff linked in them.  Any one want to pitch in for stamps, ink, labels, and etc?

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on April 06, 2009, 20:55
I can help with something. Postage? You know how to reach me.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Stutroup on April 07, 2009, 17:32
////loads of advice///

I tried to take as much of this advice as possible.

with the additional information, and re-working some things to fit, the letter should be just past three pages long, once addresses etc. are added.

Quote
<<recipient address>>

<<date>>

Dear NAME:

I am writing to voice my opinion of the proposed zoning change, APPLICATION # RZ09-001/CV09-001 at 5395 Roswell Road, the corner of Roswell Rd. and Glenridge.  As you know, this location is a highly trafficked and dangerous intersection.  In my opinion, it would be a mistake to allow the Church of Scientology to open a new location at that intersection.  While you may or may not care what they do, that is not what I am writing about.  I would rather address the issues of traffic and parking at their location.  And I would like to at least mention the issue of the poor condition of many of the group's buildings.  I would like to request as many Sandy Springs residents to be at the remaining meetings, and give their opinions on this situation.

Last year, Deb Danos was quoted in an article stating the following:  "We have about 600 active members, 200 that are regular attendees, and then on our rolls there have been literally thousands," Danos said. "I would say pretty close to 10,000 that have joined since the inception of the organization in Atlanta." ( http://tinyurl.com/djreg8 [1]).  And the group only plans to grow.

But for the sake of lenience, I'll go with the 600 active members.  Assuming they all car pool (four people per vehicle), that leaves a need of 150 parking spaces for their current needs.  The building, located at 5395 Roswell Road, has merely 83 places to park including the easement.  How will the remaining 67 parking spaces be provided?  Once again, this is assuming that all active members carpool, four per vehicle.

The location is a very busy intersection already.  The additional cars pouring out of the 11am Sunday service would wreak havoc on traffic.  Besides this, where will so many people park?  Additionally, in the previous City Council meeting, it was stated that the building is expected to be frequented by many of their members during their very long business hours; the parking lot will often be nearly full, with constant in-flow and out-flow from the parking area, almost all leading to the main road.

Please note that the Church of Scientology of Georgia, Inc. has not presented any plans to address the additional parking requirements.  Are they planning to build an above-ground parking garage? Dig one underground?  Or do they plan to bus people in from another location?  Whichever of these happens, how has it been planned?  I'm sure building additional parking would require much more time to complete – much longer than the completion of the zoning hearings.

Additionally, the building has only mentioned the paltry 1400 square feet to be used as their sanctuary.  This barely meets the zoning standards for its size of parking lot.  But it does not address the remainder of the 46,000 square foot building's offices.  One of the uses mentioned in the previous hearing is a book store.  Though Scientology claims the book store will be only fir their members, it is well known that there is a national contest among 'Orgs' for sales of Scientology books to people not in Scientology.  These are typically set up in their parking lots.  This in itself is proof that the book store will be open to the public, and should require yet more parking.

The issue of the intended use for the remaining offices also needs to be addressed.  When asked about the intention to house the offices of Scientology related groups, such as CCHR, WISE, and Applied Scholastics, in the same building, the lawyer representing Scientology refused to answer.  This seems a telling “yes,” and must be answered in the next meeting, for the sake of surety, and to see whether more parking is actually required.

Now considering the parking requirements are barely met for the floor space specified for the sanctuary, what happens when their group continues to grow?  They will require even more parking.  The unchecked growth in a building having such limited resources will cause many problems in the future.  Parking will be a perpetual and growing problem for the lot, and traffic will become ever worse when their services – both regular and special celebrations – let out.  This will, in turn, waste a lot of money and resources for Sandy Springs and its citizens.

Besides parking, the building itself is a mess.  Shutters are literally falling from the windows, and their bits are piled near the front door.  Often, since the building has been acquired, the grass cutting has been neglected until it was about two feet deep.  The paint is deteriorating, and the previously submitted paperwork promises a new roof.  But this is not unique to the one building.  A local example of poor facilities would be that of Narconon of Georgia (Narconon is one of Scientology's smaller organizations), located on Peachtree Parkway in Norcross.  The paint there is literally peeling, and the grass is often shaggy, overflowing its boundaries.  If this is what Scientology finds acceptable, why would this be allowed in Sandy Springs? 

And don't believe that the Atlanta area is alone in this!  Other places' Scientology operated buildings are in very poor shape.  Though money flows into the buildings through structured donations and very expensive auditing sessions, none of it seems to go towards improvement of facilities.

Scientology has caused trouble elsewhere when they move into areas.  One prime example is Clearwater, Florida.  When Scientology moved in, the town changed dramatically for the worse:
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/18/Tampabay/Scientology_s_town.shtml
http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/letters/article525625.ece

The dates for the meetings are:

For the Planning Commission:  May21, 2009, 7pm

For the Mayor and Council:  June 16, 2009, 6pm

They will all be at City Hall:
Sandy Springs City Hall at Morgan Hall Office Park
7840 Roswell Road Building 500
Sandy Springs

The Community Zoning Information Meeting has already passed, this past 24th of March.

Sincerely,
SENDER

[1] full URL:  http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?SectionID=34&SubSectionID=48&ArticleID=11837&TM=42592.25
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on April 07, 2009, 18:45
My suggested changes:

I am writing to voice my opinion ask that you attend the next zoning meeting, or write to the Sandy Springs city council, and voice your opinion of the proposed zoning change, APPLICATION # RZ09-001/CV09-001 at 5395 Roswell Road, the corner of Roswell Rd. and Glenridge.  As you probably know, this location is a highly trafficked and dangerous intersection.  If you, like many others, did not attend the first meeting, it can be seen on YouTube, at: http://www.youtube.com/user/GovTransparency

In short, the Church of Scientology would like to open a new church at that location.  In my opinion, it would be a mistake to allow the Church of Scientology to open a new location to allow this at that intersection.  While you may or may not care what they do their religion entails, that is not what I am writing about my primary concern.  I would rather like to address the issues of traffic and parking at their location, and .  And I would like to at least mention the issue of the poor condition of many of the group's other buildings, and ask, why will this one be different?   I would like to request as many Sandy Springs residents to be at the remaining meetings, and give their opinions on this situation.

Last year, a spokesman for the church, Deb Danos, was quoted inan articlethe Gwinnett Daily Post stating and stated the following:  "We have about 600 active members, 200 that are regular attendees, and then on our rolls there have been literally thousands," Danos said. "I would say pretty close to 10,000 that have joined since the inception of the organization in Atlanta."  And the The group only plans to grow.  Here is a link to the article: http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?SectionID=34&SubSectionID=48&ArticleID=11837&TM=42592.25 (http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?SectionID=34&SubSectionID=48&ArticleID=11837&TM=42592.25) or http://tinyurl.com/djreg8 (http://tinyurl.com/djreg8)

But for the sake of lenience, I'll go with the The building, located at 5395 Roswell Road, has merely 83 places to park including the easement.  If there are 600 active members, .  Assuming and even if they all car pool (with four people per vehicle), that leaves a need of there would be 150 parking spaces for their current needs. needed!  The building, located at 5395 Roswell Road, has merely 83 places to park including the easement. How, and where, will the remaining 67 parking spaces be provided?   Once again, this is assuming that all active members carpool, four per vehicle.  This issue has not been addressed.  If the group continues to grow, they will require even more parking.  Growth in a building having with such limited parking will cause many problems - traffic, construction, and financial issues - for Sandy Springs and her residents in the future.

The location is a very busy intersection already.  The additional cars pouring out of the 11am Sunday service would wreak havoc on traffic.  Besides this, where will so many people park?  Additionally, in the previous City Council meeting, it was stated that the building is expected to be frequented by many of their members during their very unusually long business hours; the parking lot will often be nearly full, with constant in-flow and out-flow from the parking area, almost all leading to the main road Roswell Road.

Please note that t The Church of Scientology of Georgia, Inc. has not presented a ny plan to address the additional parking requirements.  Are they planning to build an above-ground parking garage? Dig one underground?  Or do they plan to bus people in from another location?  Whichever of these happens, how has it been planned? it will exacerbate the already problematic traffic, as well as disrupt the surrounding neighborhood. I'm sure building additional parking would require much more time to complete – much longer than the completion of the zoning hearings.

Additionally, t The building has existing parking barely provides for only mentioned the paltry 1400 square feet to be used as their sanctuary, as called for specified by .  This barely meets the zoning standards for its the building size of parking lot.  But i It does not address the remainder of the 46,000 square foot building. 's offices.  One of the intended uses mentioned in the previous hearingis a book store.  Though the attorney for Scientology claims says the book store will be only fior their members, it is well known that there is a national contest among Scientology 'Orgs' for "most books sold" sales of Scientology books to potential new recruits.  people not in Scientology.  On occasion, they also offer "stress tests" to the public to recruit new members.  These, and the book sales, are often take place typically set up in their parking lots.  This will also overflow the parking lot, and add to traffic.  in itself is proof that the book store will be open to the public, and should require yet more parking.

The issue of the intended use for the remaining offices 44,000 square feet also needs to be addressed.  When asked about the intention to if the building would also house the offices of other Scientology related groups, such as CCHR, WISE, and Applied Scholastics, in the same building, the lawyer representing Scientology refused to answer.  This seems a telling “yes,” and must be answered in the next meeting, for the sake of surety, and to see whether more parking is actually required.  If so, these parking needs must be addressed as well.

Now considering the parking requirements are barely met for the floor space specified for the sanctuary, what happens when their If the group continues to grow, ?  T they will require even more parking.  The unchecked growth in a building having such limited resources will cause many problems in the future.  Parking will be a perpetual and growing problem for the lot, and traffic will become ever worse when their services – both regular and special celebrations – let out.  This will, in turn, waste a lot of money and resources for Sandy Springs and its citizens.

Besides parking, t The building on Roswell Road, which has been owned by the Church of Scientology of Georgia since late 2005, itself is a mess.  Shutters are literally falling from the windows, and their bits are piled near the front door.  Often, since the building has been acquired, the g Grass cutting has often been neglected, sometimes reaching until it was about two feet high deep.  The paint is deteriorating, and the previously submitted paperwork promises a new roof.  They have had three years to care for and maintain this building, and have neglected to do so.  Why will the coming years be any different?

But t This is not unique to the one this building.  A local example of poor facilities would be that of Narconon of Georgia, Scientology's drug rehab facility, (Narconon is one of Scientology's smaller organizations), located on Peachtree Parkway in Norcross, .  The has paint there is literally peeling off the exterior walls, and the shaggy grass, filled with weeds, is often shaggy, overflowing its boundaries.  If Is this is what Scientology finds acceptable? , why w Should this be allowed in Sandy Springs? 

And don't believe that tThe Church of Scientology of Georgia Atlanta area is not so different from the other branches.  alone in this!  Other places' Scientology operated buildings around the world are in very poor shape.  Though money flows into the organization buildings through structured donations and very expensive counseling  auditingsessions, Scientology operated buildings around the world are in very poor shape. none of it seems to go towards improvement of facilities.

Scientology has caused trouble elsewhere when they move into areas.  One prime example is Clearwater, Florida.  When Scientology moved in, the town changed dramatically for the worse:

Please don't let what happened to the nice little city of Clearwater, Florida happen to Sandy Springs!  Read more about that at these links, and get involved before it's too late:http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/18/Tampabay/Scientology_s_town.shtml (http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/18/Tampabay/Scientology_s_town.shtml)
http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/letters/article525625.ece (http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/letters/article525625.ece)

The dates for the meetings are:
Community/Developer Resolution: April 23, 2009 at 6:00 PM
For the Planning Commission:  May 21, 2009, 7pm
For the Mayor and City Council:  June 16, 2009, 6pm

They will all[/] be held at City Hall:
Sandy Springs City Hall at Morgan Hall Office Park
7840 Roswell Road Building 500
Sandy Springs

The Community Zoning Information Meeting has already passed, this past 24th of March.
If you cannot attend the meetings, please write to your Sandy Springs government.  Names and addresses can be found on the web site at: http://www.sandyspringsga.org/ (http://www.sandyspringsga.org/)

Sincerely,
SENDER
A group of concerned citizens
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Raven on April 07, 2009, 19:09
sold!  I like it greatly!  I can mail tomorrow
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Ultrapoet on April 07, 2009, 19:34
The Community/Developer Resolution meeting is on April 23, 2009 at 6:00 PM.  Be sure to add that as well.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on April 07, 2009, 20:15
So without the formatting, here it is:

I am writing to ask that you attend the next zoning meeting, or write to the Sandy Springs city council, and voice your opinion of the proposed zoning change, APPLICATION # RZ09-001/CV09-001 at 5395 Roswell Road, the corner of Roswell Rd. and Glenridge.  As you probably know, this location is a highly trafficked and dangerous intersection.  If you, like many others, did not attend the first meeting, it can be seen on YouTube, at: http://www.youtube.com/user/GovTransparency

In short, the Church of Scientology would like to open a new church at that location.  In my opinion, it would be a mistake to allow this at that intersection.  While you may or may not care what their religion entails, that is not my primary concern.  I would like to address the issues of traffic and parking at their location, and mention the the poor condition of many of the group's other buildings, and ask, why will this one be different?   

Last year, a spokesman for the church, Deb Danos, was quoted in the Gwinnett Daily Post and stated the following:  "We have about 600 active members, 200 that are regular attendees, and then on our rolls there have been literally thousands," Danos said. "I would say pretty close to 10,000 that have joined since the inception of the organization in Atlanta."  The group plans to grow.  Here is a link to the article: http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?SectionID=34&SubSectionID=48&ArticleID=11837&TM=42592.25 (http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/main.asp?SectionID=34&SubSectionID=48&ArticleID=11837&TM=42592.25) or http://tinyurl.com/djreg8 (http://tinyurl.com/djreg8)

The building, located at 5395 Roswell Road, has merely 83 places to park including the easement.  If there are 600 active members, and even if they car pool with four people per vehicle, there would be 150 parking spaces needed!  How, and where, will the remaining 67 parking spaces be provided?   This issue has not been addressed.  If the group continues to grow, they will require even more parking.  Growth in a building having with such limited parking will cause many problems - traffic, construction, and financial issues - for Sandy Springs and her residents in the future.

The location is a very busy intersection already.  The additional cars pouring out of the 11am Sunday service would wreak havoc on traffic.  Additionally, in the previous City Council meeting, it was stated that the building is expected to be frequented by many of their members during their unusually long business hours; the parking lot will often be nearly full, with constant in-flow and out-flow from the parking area, leading to Roswell Road.

The Church of Scientology of Georgia, Inc. has not presented a plan to address the additional parking requirements.  Are they planning to build an above-ground parking garage? Dig one underground?  Or do they plan to bus people in from another location?  Whichever of these happens, it will exacerbate the already problematic traffic, as well as disrupt the surrounding neighborhood.

The existing parking barely provides for the 1400 square feet to be used as their sanctuary, as specified by the zoning standards.  It does not address the remainder of the 46,000 square foot building.  One intended use mentioned in the meeting is a book store.  Though the attorney for Scientology says the book store will be only for their members, there is a national contest among Scientology 'Orgs' for "most books sold" to potential new recruits.  On occasion, they also offer "stress tests" to the public to recruit new members.  These, and the book sales, often take place in their parking lots.  This will also overflow the parking lot, and add to traffic.

The intended use for the remaining 44,000 square feet also needs to be addressed.  When asked if the building would also house other Scientology related groups, such as CCHR, WISE, and Applied Scholastics, the lawyer representing Scientology refused to answer.  If so, these parking needs must be addressed as well.

The building on Roswell Road, which has been owned by the Church of Scientology of Georgia since late 2005, is a mess.  Shutters are literally falling from the windows, and their bits are piled near the front door.  Grass cutting has often been neglected, sometimes reaching two feet high.  The paint is deteriorating, and the submitted paperwork promises a new roof.  They have had three years to care for and maintain this building, and have neglected to do so.  Why will the coming years be any different?

This is not unique to this building.  Narconon of Georgia, Scientology's drug rehab facility, located on Peachtree Parkway in Norcross, has paint literally peeling off the exterior walls, and shaggy grass, filled with weeds, overflowing its boundaries.  Is this is what Scientology finds acceptable? Should this be allowed in Sandy Springs? 

The Church of Scientology of Georgia is not so different from the other branches.   Though money flows into the organization through structured donations and very expensive counseling sessions, Scientology operated buildings around the world are in very poor shape.

Please don't let what happened to the nice little city of Clearwater, Florida happen to Sandy Springs!  Read more about that at these links, and get involved before it's too late:
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/18/Tampabay/Scientology_s_town.shtml (http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/18/Tampabay/Scientology_s_town.shtml)
http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/letters/article525625.ece (http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/letters/article525625.ece)

The dates for the meetings are:
Community/Developer Resolution: April 23, 2009 at 6:00 PM
For the Planning Commission:  May 21, 2009, 7pm
For the Mayor and City Council:  June 16, 2009, 6pm

They will be held at City Hall:
Sandy Springs City Hall at Morgan Hall Office Park
7840 Roswell Road Building 500
Sandy Springs

If you cannot attend the meetings, please write to your Sandy Springs government.  Names and addresses can be found on the web site at: http://www.sandyspringsga.org/ (http://www.sandyspringsga.org/)

Sincerely,
A group of concerned citizens
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on April 07, 2009, 20:22
The Community/Developer Resolution meeting is on April 23, 2009 at 6:00 PM.  Be sure to add that as well.

Added.  That date is confirmed?  Because in the meeting, they said it would be either the 22nd or the 23rd, whichever the applicant chose.  Even if it is confirmed, it might be good to reconfirm it on the 21st (so we don't get tricked).

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Ultrapoet on April 07, 2009, 20:25
Called Linda Abaray at the zoning office.  She called back, and gave me that date and time.  I asked her about the sign; she told me they didn't need to have it up until Friday at the latest.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on April 07, 2009, 20:37
Ultrapoet, do we need to notify her if we want to attend the meeting, or only if we want to speak?  The notice you got says notify her "to be included."  (Did she sound nice?)

I went back and edited the letter to include Gumby's videos of the first meeting, because nothing says it quite as well as the lawyer's evasion of questions.  : )  And then there's that narconon video up there too...

Stu, thanks for writing it, I just tried to make it sound a little less impassioned, and a little more formal - yours sounded very conversational.  And I could tell you were outraged!  Outraged, I tell you!   :o
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Ultrapoet on April 08, 2009, 09:25
She sounded perfectly nice.  I didn't get the impression that the meeting itself was any kind of invite-only thing, since she said something about how the meeting might get moved from the side room into the larger courtroom area if the crowd is large enough.

I'll photograph the sign whenever it goes up on Friday and post it here.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on April 09, 2009, 06:01
I invited Lorelei to join the discussion here.  She replied that she has been very busy lately with school stuff (and hasn't registered), but she posted this elsewhere, so I'll paste it in here for her:

Quote
For more on the load-bearing issue: note that BOOKS and SAUNA FIXTURES, especially when filled with people and water, are effing heavy. Ditto the massive amount of paperwork generated by the average Org.
 
 I wonder if there was a sauna in the current Org, and if that was what caused the reported plumbing failures we heard about from the "landlady"?
 
 Does the Post Office realize that they may have Scilons using their lot NOT just on Sundays when the PO is closed? After all, the reps did note that people would be streaming in and out from 9am to 9pm every day. Perhaps they will be less happy with the arrangement when this is pointed out, given the likely overflow of vehicles.
 
 Will the refurbishments to the sign make it in any way harder for drivers to see around? This is already a busy and accident-dense spot, and adding any further impediment to seeing clearly up and down the road, be it shrubs or bigger/wider/distracting signage is a safety issue.
 
 I assume that event noise / vehicle noise / lights / music, etc. have been addressed? Do the Scilons intend to hold any events in their parking lot that might draw extra crowds / alter traffic patterns / violate peddler license laws / make a lot of noise? I'd challenge any attempt to set up book or test tables or to hold 'parties' in the parking lot.
 
 Will Scilons be "witnessing" or soliciting in neighboring strip malls, businesses, residential communities, or posting fliers / posters on utility poles, or otherwise being a nuisance? (That one is weak, but maybe can be shaped into something relevant.)
 
 Will Scilons be providing medical or psychiatric care or advice without a board-certified medical doctor / psychiatrist permanently on staff? Will Scilons comply with HIPAA guidelines? (Any medical / psychiatric record must comply with HIPAA, and anyone with access to same MUST be HIPAA-certified.) Does dispensing vitamins / offering sauna treatments fall under the umbrella of medical advice / psychiatric advice / medical care or not? If there are no actual medical or psychiatric benefits, then isn't this a scam? Isn't there danger involved with prescribing vitamins / meds or offering medical care without a medical doctor and shrink on staff? Will staff be trained in CPR? Do you count touch-assists as CPR? Will there be a defibrillator on site for people who get heart attacks after being exposed to nearly boiling water? (One of my former bosses died of a heart attack in a sauna at the YMCA on Clifton Road, for example. He had no prior known heart condition.) If an emergency vehicle is needed, will it be able to access the property in a timely manner, given the traffic issues in that area? Has the building been tested for asbestos content and lead paint? If child care is to be provided, will the caregivers be bonded and licensed? If schooling of any sort is to be provided, will the teachers be licensed and credentialed via the GA Board of Education, and file lesson plans as homeschoolers must?
 
 Just some things to think about.       

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Ultrapoet on April 09, 2009, 09:57
From what I read of the paperwork Raven uploaded, the parking spaces they're claiming to have include a 'sharing' arrangement with the Post Office.  So the objections of the Post Office are not likely.  I'm not sure if the 83 parking spaces they have includes the PO spaces or not--if it does, then we definitely have an argument against them.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SocialTransparency on April 10, 2009, 08:54
Page 6 of scilion letter of intent to SS states, 1ST FLOOR current LOAD capacity is 75 POUNDS per square foot. Current SS code states LOAD capacity must be a MINIMUM of 100 POUNDS per square foot.

To placate the city, scilions want to POST A SIGN stating the floor is only rated @ 75lbs per sq ft. Heck, i weigh 165. Would i fall thru the floor? Into the scilion top secret basement? YIKES.

The cult does not have the funds to bring this sub floor up to code. Same with the parking issue. Hence these zoning variance requests. they do not have the money to meet SS codes currently in place. They are asking for favors from the city.

On another note, on page 1 of the scan-001 pdf, The owner of the roswell rd property is located @ 1611 MT Vernon Rd. Dunwoody Ga 30335. Is this mailing address the older scilion bunker? :o

Now what i would like to know is this. YES, the C of S of Ga has an easement agreement with the USPO located on Glendridge drive. ::)

This IS A GRANDFATHERED EASEMENT passed on from the previous owner and USPO, for INGRESS and EGRESS from the Glenridge rd side only. Nothing in writing that i can find pertaining to a overflow parking agreement. Show me the doc,s. Ask that they be shown. ;D
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on April 10, 2009, 23:11
Page 6 of scilion letter of intent to SS states, 1ST FLOOR current LOAD capacity is 75 POUNDS per square foot. Current SS code states LOAD capacity must be a MINIMUM of 100 POUNDS per square foot.

To placate the city, scilions want to POST A SIGN stating the floor is only rated @ 75lbs per sq ft. Heck, i weigh 165. Would i fall thru the floor? Into the scilion top secret basement? YIKES.

This would be another good thing to bring up, whether at a meeting, or in a letter. 

Quote
The cult does not have the funds to bring this sub floor up to code. Same with the parking issue. Hence these zoning variance requests. they do not have the money to meet SS codes currently in place. They are asking for favors from the city.

Didn't they say in the meeting that they were dropping all variance changes except the sign one?

Quote
On another note, on page 1 of the scan-001 pdf, The owner of the roswell rd property is located @ 1611 MT Vernon Rd. Dunwoody Ga 30335. Is this mailing address the older scilion bunker? :o
Yes, that is the old org address.  I don't know why they are using it.  What I know, or think I know at least, is that the Mt. Vernon bldg. was sold for $1.2 million, and they had a suit going against the current owner last October (I think).  I did not find out what the suit was for specifically.  I can dig up the info I have if anyone else wants to look into it.  At the moment, I'm snowed under.  I imagine there would be a record of it in the DeKalb County records dept.

Quote
Now what i would like to know is this. YES, the C of S of Ga has an easement agreement with the USPO located on Glendridge drive. ::)

This IS A GRANDFATHERED EASEMENT passed on from the previous owner and USPO, for INGRESS and EGRESS from the Glenridge rd side only. Nothing in writing that i can find pertaining to a overflow parking agreement. Show me the doc,s. Ask that they be shown. ;D

I'll have to look more closely at this later.  I am beat tonight, but we'll have a cake tomorrow for the protest.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on April 13, 2009, 19:05
I have updated the first post in this thread.  The new stuff is in bold text.  Please read.  Thanks.

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Lorelei on April 13, 2009, 20:08
If they are using the Mt. Vernon address, how are they getting their mail? Should we poke around and see if they sill own property there?

Is this to dodge some current issues we don't know about with their current Shallowford location? Perhaps there are upset neighbors in the Shallowford area who have filed complaints, or issues with Scilons not paying rent / utils / maintaining the property?

It would be nice if we could check on their current status on Shallowford, to see if they are running away from existing problems with that neighborhood and merchants / utlites in addition to trying to satisfy the COB's demand for MOAR Idle Orgs.

As for the 75lbs per sq.ft, I'm assuming that 1 square foot is equivalent to a block 12 inches by 12 inches. There are people, TVs and filing cabinets that exceed that weight, easily.

And, yes, school is doing my head in.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on April 13, 2009, 21:02
The Mt. Vernon address is a medical facility now, divided into separate offices.  We do know that someone claiming to be the owner of the N. Shallowford bldg. claimed that they were leaving there, but we took her to be a scientologist because the same thing had happened in other cities.  I don't know how to find out that kind of stuff, short of doing door-to-door interviews.  The discrepancy might be a good thing to bring up at the meeting, or in a letter, though.

I assume that with the floor, there is a certain load required for some amount of floor space - I don't think it literally means that each ft2 must hold 100 lbs, but rather that if they have 100 ft2 of floor space, it must hold 10,000 lbs, and it only will hold 7500 lbs.  I don't know if that includes the weight of the walls too, but it almost certainly would include files, desks, and saunas, in addition to people.  They are probably going for a reduced occupancy rating.

 For instance, if the example 100 ft2 would normally be rated for occupancy of 40, the 100 ft2 with 75 lb. floors would be rated for an occupancy of 30.  (Because, one would hope! the 1 ft2 on which you would stand wouldn't cut loose from the rest of the floor and drop out from under you.)

It would be interesting to find out what the number of people the existing floor space at the existing weight rating would safely hold, that is, what the occupancy rating would be.




Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on April 14, 2009, 20:38
Thanks for the update EC.

I think your point about stressing the primary issue being parking and traffic, and other issues in the zoning application you linked is definitely the way to go in this community. I would steer totally clear of mentioning Xenu or anything about the cult's beliefs.   

SS is a very open-minded community in many ways. I believe we must not appear anti-religious in any way. (even though we know we are not dealing with a real religion)   
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition-Org Pictures
Post by: mefree on April 24, 2009, 06:55
Does anyone have a collection of pictures of the currently run-down orgs that exist that we could post somewhere for the public to view?

The condition of the SS building since purchase in 2005 and other orgs was mentioned at the zoning meeting last night. There seems to be some awareness in the community that some of the buildings are quite run-down and in disrepair. That picture of the LA org still in disrepair long after earthquake damage comes to mind. 

If not I can track down some pics.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on May 29, 2009, 19:47
The original post has been updated, please jump back to here (http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,27.msg173.html#msg173) to read it.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on June 02, 2009, 19:29
Updated again: here (http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,27.msg173.html#msg173)
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Raven on June 03, 2009, 07:25
Thanks for keeping all this straight EC
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Lorelei on June 03, 2009, 13:18
Of possible interest (originally posted by "Uncle Bruce" elsewhere):

Quote
There is an interesting letter in today's St. Pete times about the tax
money spent on improving down town Clearwater that benefits no one but
the cult. The letter is of particular interest because the writer has
some expertise in this area.

Redeveloping downtown Clearwater is a waste of city tax dollars - St. Petersburg Times
http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/letters/article1006666.ece

This link will also allow you to write the times about the recent letter to the French Government by Mr. Belerakus ET AL.

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Stutroup on June 16, 2009, 20:49
Tonight's meeting confirmed the deferral to August.

More will come when people get to their computers xD
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Ultrapoet on June 16, 2009, 22:28
Not a hell of a lot to say.  Neighbors registered displeasure, I made what points I could in what time I had left and the vote was to defer it until August 18.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Raven on June 17, 2009, 09:18
Well it was delayed until August 8th so sci can pay for a parking study to be done.  Obviously it will be biased. 

One of the council members went after sci's lawyer and it was beautiful to see.  I hope Gumby gets the videos up soon.

We have 60 days to get people even more worked up. The objectives remain the same
1) Inform people to get them to not let sci in
2) Inform people enough that if sci gets in they won't get any new customers form it.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Lorelei on June 19, 2009, 22:33
Perhaps we should make a booklet for the counsel members that outline, in bullet point format, the primary objections and concerns, and some lovely colour pictures of Scientology properties world-wide, links to videos of same, and, if possible, comments from local businesses and civilians in Scihive-afflicted areas.

A compare-and-contrast section with the differences between tradtional churches and Scientology's business might or might not be useful, depending on how it is handled. One point that should be made is charitable outreach for Scilons takes on the Vulture Minister model, where they leech off of services and goods provided by legitimate relief organizations and religious volunteers while providing nothing in return.

Bullet points to consider:
1. The most vital, of course, would be the parking / zoning. This is what the meetings focus on.
2. Traffic / business hours / events held.
3. Peddling books / tests / vitamins on site.
4. Lack of maintenance at site now, and other sites world-wide, and current properties in GA.
5. Proposed modifications to building will render it a white elephant, unsuitable for most subsequent tenants.
6. Their "slow pay" tech, and likely impact on locals providing services and goods.
7. ...etc.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on June 20, 2009, 12:25
Perhaps we should make a booklet for the counsel members that outline, in bullet point format, the primary objections and concerns, and some lovely colour pictures of Scientology properties world-wide, links to videos of same, and, if possible, comments from local businesses and civilians in Scihive-afflicted areas.

I believe the Sandy Springs govt. is well informed.  They have a large stack of information from residents (and others), and don't appear to lack knowledge.  I think part of the problem, though, is that Galloway has made several suggestions to them that he will sue the city if the rezoning is not approved.  Scientology is, once again, trying to play the religious discrimination card.  From reading the documents Raven posted, here (http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,195.0.html) and here (http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,194.0.html), it appears to me that they are somewhat resistant to that, but it will depend on the city attorney's opinion as to how resistant they will continue to be.  I believe there may more documents yet to be posted when Raven has the time to scan and upload them.

It seems to me that the most effective thing we can do is to inform all the residents as best we can, enough so to get most of them to verbally oppose the rezoning.  There are a lot of residents opposed, and the majority (if not all) who have expressed an opinion are opposed, but far more have not expressed an opinion at all.  If an overwhelming number of the residents are opposed, I wonder if that is sufficient for the Mayor and City Council to turn it down just based on residents' opposition?

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on June 20, 2009, 12:26
... delayed until August 8th ...

August 18, I believe.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on June 29, 2009, 22:06
The original post has been updated.

Jump here:
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,27.msg46.html#msg46

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Lorelei on June 30, 2009, 21:45
Interesting that there is a meeting on that date...when did they decide to do that?

Glad you found out about it!
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on July 01, 2009, 11:14
I think maybe the meeting was scheduled all along, and at the last Mayor and City Council meeting, when they said the next meeting would be August 18, they were referring specifically to the next Mayor and City Council meeting, either forgetting, or just not referring to, the next Planning Commission meeting.  Your guess is as good as mine as to why they wouldn't have mentioned the Planning Commission meeting.   ???
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on July 06, 2009, 23:26
I think this information from SP Times related to Clearwater is pertinent to our interests:

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/letters/article1016155.ece (http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/letters/article1016155.ece)

Pinellas residents must defend planning council

Re: Despite times, we can afford land use plans |  Diane Steinle column, July 5

Quote
We must defend planning council

The Pinellas Planning Council, a countywide land planning agency, is more important than ever to the citizens of Pinellas County. Now that Gov. Charlie Crist has sold out Florida to the developers, the citizens in each county will have to tighten up their plans for development more than ever.

You very rarely see the actions of the Pinellas Planning Council. Their work is accomplished in small meetings that do not get noticed unless their actions differ with the Pinellas County Commission. Then, the citizens have an opportunity to witness just how important the planning council is.

Recently, the Pinellas Planning Council fought, for you and me, the Pinellas County Commission's plan to designate a portion of the Brooker Creek Preserve for future construction of water treatment plants and water storage tanks.

This is how the Pinellas County Commission works: Tear things into small pieces and no one will notice the big picture of what we are doing. However, the Pinellas Planning Council did notice and tried to stop it. (Please note the definition of "preserve": maintain something in its original or existing state. This is a concept that the County Commission cannot see.)

County Administrator Bob LaSala says that he is not being punitive in telling the Pinellas Planning Council that it is necessary for the agency to cut its budget almost in half and stop levying its dedicated tax on county residents. That is like telling the Pinellas Planning Council to spend the money it has, do not bother to raise any more, and plan on being nonexistent in a few years.

Is this really what the citizens of Pinellas County want? I do not think so. This council was established in 1988 by a special act of the Florida Legislature when someone had the foresight to realize that one day a governor such as Crist would come along and sell out our state to the developers. The problem with the special act is that it gives "the board of county commissioners the right to review the planning council budget, raising or reducing it as it deems necessary."

Now, more than ever, the citizens of Pinellas County must do everything we can to protect our land. It will be up to us to watch how the County Commission votes on these issues because these issues affect our lives. Watch to see if the county administrator does everything he can to abolish this council, which is working to protect the environment.

We need the Pinellas Planning Council.

Margaret Hyde, Clearwater

Comments by Clearwater/Tampa Bay residents are also posted to the piece.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on July 07, 2009, 05:32
Quote
Margaret Hyde, Clearwater

One group takes over downtown

I have lived in Clearwater for 20 years, and when the City Council asks the question why downtown Clearwater is not becoming the vibrant, successful marketplace that it was planned to be, the answer is Scientology.

Scientology has destroyed our downtown. One only has to see the Scientologists roaming our streets, none of them ever saying good afternoon or excuse me.

You will never convince me this is a religion. They use our streets as part of their domain and are slowly buying up our city. The answer as to why we, the residents of Clearwater, will not shop there is Scientology.

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on July 12, 2009, 12:38
Updated original post: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,27.msg46.html#msg46

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Lorelei on July 15, 2009, 00:27
I mentioned their "Dateline Paying Tech" earlier, and although info has been posted here, this may supplement that:

Quote
From one of Jeff Jacobsen's sites:

Quote
Originally Posted by Jeff Jacobsen:
Hubbard wrote that the church was to use a "Dateline Paying" method of paying bills, which means a date in the past is selected according to how much money the department has, and then any bills due past that date are paid. "Tell Accounts, 'Give me every bill we owe prior to August (three months ago).' Add these up. Let's say the amount exceeds our cash. Cut it back one month. Order 'Write cheques for every bill up to July 1.' (That's four months back.) That we can cover fully with cash." (HCOPL of 28 January 1965, "How to Maintain Credit Standing & Solvency")

If important bills are overdue and threats are coming in, "Still try to use the above system. But if you can't, pay it and retard other bills accordingly. And thereafter, don't pay that outfit's bill on any other terms than threatened trouble... Be very proud and haughty about bills. NEVER propitiate." (ibid.)

"In the case of a tradesman demanding for a bill only slightly overdue you will usually find they have done poor work or slow work if you're at all solvent and paying your bills. Don't say 'We're too poor and we can only send you a little but we will try.' ... Say properly 'I don't see that your bill is much overdue. It takes a bit of time to pay a bill you know. I will check over your account and see if it is all right. And by the way, people who dun us either have insufficient finance to handle our business or something is wrong with their bill. I am setting your bill aside for audit and if you call again about it, we will sever the account." (HCOPL of 28 March 1965, "Emergencies and Accounts Personnel")

"Disbursement NEVER pays from a received bill alone. All bills received are first filed in the Disbursement files. Then the file is reviewed as a whole when the time comes to pay bills. It is forbidden to short circuit this line and pay bills just as they drop into the In basket. They are filed. Then all files are reviewed once a month, summated and the result entered in a statement sheet in the file folder and on a Bills Summary Sheet.... when thereafter requested to do so, the Disbursement Section makes out the cheques as indicated or readies the cash." (HCOPL of 6 May 1964, "Accounts Policies").

It appears that bills must go through a lengthy bureaucratic paper shuffle before payment is finally made.

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/cos/construction.htm
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Ultrapoet on July 15, 2009, 15:32
Got this in my email from the condo association:

Quote
REMINDER - PLANNING COMMISSION MEETS AT 7pm on THURSDAY, JULY 16 to hear the application by the Church of Scientology to use 5395 Roswell Road as a Church.
 
Eight Civic or Homeowners Associations have made formal objections to the proposal and over 500 individuals have either sent letters/e-mails or signed petitions.
 
Those presenting the objections at Thursday's meeting are looking for strong support from objectors in person. They wish to be able to demonstrate to the Planning Commission that they have a large body of supporters in the public gallery, who are prepared to turn out and not just leave it to a small number to make the case.
 
We urge you to attend.

I'll be there, barring disaster.  Off to draft a statement--may run it past y'all if I have time.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Raven on July 15, 2009, 15:37
Ultra I sadly won't be able to make it.  I know you guys will do great!

I persoanlly love to read stuffs
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Lorelei on July 15, 2009, 23:28
*Calendar Tech FAIL*

Never mind! :P
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on August 16, 2009, 16:49
Original Post updated.

http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,27.msg46.html#msg46
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on August 17, 2009, 19:57
Local news coverage: http://www.wsbtv.com/video/20436381/index.html (http://www.wsbtv.com/video/20436381/index.html)
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Stutroup on August 17, 2009, 21:48
Local news coverage: http://www.wsbtv.com/video/20436381/index.html (http://www.wsbtv.com/video/20436381/index.html)

It's a relatively short blurb of a story, but it's a step in the right direction!  Jovita Moore, the reporter on the story, covers the main points briefly but well, and I think the mentioned petition should get the public's greater attention.

Also, I uploaded the video to YouTube.  I have the file, still, so if anyone wants it, feel free to download from my channel or I can maybe upload the video and post a download link.

HOWEVER I suggest watching the video on the news site!  Several times!  Give them traffic!  Let them know what we're concerned about!

I even suggest some telephone calls to thank them for posting it, for informing the public on the issue.

(This should work; the video is still processing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbcnmoHBxSY

Also, thank you for posting the link!  I'm glad I checked the forum before bed.

=========

I can't stop making edits! 

OK: 

Their attendance numbers have changed again!  Scientology's claim for the report is 150 every Sunday!

Also, I'm SO glad there's a tight close-up on shoddy shutters!

That's it; I'm off to bed finally xD
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on August 17, 2009, 22:54
Thanks for the summary.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Stutroup on August 18, 2009, 16:02
OK, so now I REALLY encourage people to at least write!  I don't know how deeply it's being read, but seriously, the emails and letters are read.  Mine just received a response.  It's a form-type response, but an appropriate one for a "thank you for covering this" letter.

talk2us [at] wsbtv [dot] com

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on August 18, 2009, 23:32
Tonight's meeting:
It's been deferred again.  Back to the Planning Commission again in Sept, and to the Mayor and City Council in October.  Some 11th hour submittals will be available as public record sometime before the next meeting.  Word is they're still fighting to get approval to enclose the basement parking.

My opinion: Galloway and scientology are playing the "drag it out in court" game, hoping their opponents will be worn down by the delays, and be too tired to care.  Apparently they don't realize it just buys more time to inform more people.   ;D

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SirBedevere on August 19, 2009, 10:52
And cost them more lawyer $time$.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Raven on August 20, 2009, 08:46
for those of us lacking the net skills to find the new info on the ss website abt the rezoning would some on be kind enough to provide me with tutorial or a link?

I fail the nets
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SocialTransparency on August 20, 2009, 10:29
 After Woodson Galloways 11th hour hail mary pass, i would hope the Planning commission settles this once and for all. The last time Woodson Galloway crossed swords with the Planning commission, a member was quoted as saying this issue has dragged on for months. So, the Planning commission adopted staff recommendations, voted on those recommendation, then passed that on to the Mayor and city council.

 This 11th hour AND by the way, not meeting the cities criteria on submittal deadlines seems to be a tactical move on the part of attorney Woodson Galloway. This issue going back to the planning commission, imho does not bode well for Galloway. It is more than apparent the commission has great faith in its staffs ability to be both professional and fair. What could be such a dramatic change, that Galloway has sought another deferral? Buying time? I personally can not wait to see this NEW angle in which Dillard and Galloway are traveling down. When will this material be publicly available?

 I would like to forward the WHOLE Sandy Springs information package to ALL the local television and news channels. Sometimes we citizens need to assist our media outlets with factual information.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SirBedevere on August 20, 2009, 11:10
Who is Woodson Galloway?  Apologies if it was posted earlier, but I did to a search and only ST's article came up.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Ultrapoet on August 20, 2009, 11:42
Who is Woodson Galloway?  Apologies if it was posted earlier, but I did to a search and only ST's article came up.

Woodson "Woody" Galloway is the lawyer representing the CoS in this zoning matter.  He is not a Scientologist, but is taking their money anyway.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on August 20, 2009, 11:58
for those of us lacking the net skills to find the new info on the ss website abt the rezoning would some on be kind enough to provide me with tutorial or a link?

I just posted some information (and a tutorial) here: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,398.msg2396.html#msg2396 before I saw your post. 

The latest packet is here: http://www.sandysprings-ga.org/agendas/MCC/2009-0818/MCC_08182009_Reg_007.pdf

It does not contain the very latest submittals from Galloway and co.  I believe that will (or should, at least) come before the next Planning Commission meeting.  Sandy Springs seems to be having trouble dealing with the mountain of information needing to be posted.

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on September 16, 2009, 19:50
Original post updated, here: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,27.msg46.html#msg46

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Raven on November 04, 2009, 19:48
next one is...(for those of us to lazy to type the word google in)
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SocialTransparency on December 15, 2009, 15:27
So! I wonder if we will get some media coverage tonight?
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SocialTransparency on December 15, 2009, 15:32
Will the good citizens of Sandy Springs get cAek? or a lump o cOal? ;D
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Ultrapoet on December 15, 2009, 15:58
We shall see.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Stutroup on December 15, 2009, 16:08
Again, I'm with you all in heart!  Go go go go go!!

Get it disapproved! :D
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Stutroup on December 15, 2009, 21:00
I was just notified:  The cult (still) has permission to move in and practice, but they have been denied permission to enclose the basement as a sanctuary.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Ultrapoet on December 15, 2009, 23:12
I was just notified:  The cult (still) has permission to move in and practice, but they have been denied permission to enclose the basement as a sanctuary.

Sums it up nicely.  They're stuck with three floors and less space than they insist that they need.  So they're still kinda screwed.  We'll see what happens next.

Too many margaritas to detail much more. 
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on December 15, 2009, 23:39
http://www.ajc.com/news/north-fulton/lawsuit-coming-despite-sandy-242245.html (http://www.ajc.com/news/north-fulton/lawsuit-coming-despite-sandy-242245.html)

Lawsuit coming, despite Sandy Springs' OK of Scientology church

By April Hunt

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

8:55 p.m. Tuesday, December 15, 2009

Scientology is coming to Sandy Springs – but a federal lawsuit is coming first.

“Absolutely,” said attorney William Woodson Galloway, when asked if the Church of Scientology will pursue a religious liberty lawsuit following a vote Tuesday that limited the size of the church in Sandy Springs. “We are not happy with the result.”

The result was a 3-3 vote by the City Council on Tuesday night that tried to find a common ground between outright denial of the rezoning of the office building at Roswell Road and Glenridge Drive and agreeing to the church’s request to add a fourth floor to the building.

In the end, the tiebreaking vote went to Mayor Eva Galambos, who supported the staff and Planning Commission middle ground that allowed the church in, but without the additional space.

Council members Dianne Fries, Ashley Jenkins and Rusty Paul also voted in favor, while council members Tibby DeJulio, Doug MacGinnitie and Karen Meinzen McEnerny dissented.

“We can’t make everybody happy,” Galambos said. “We did the best we could with our zoning ordinances and all the recommendations before us.”

That was cold comfort to the standing-room-only crowd that showed up to argue against the rezoning, based on concerns about parking and traffic.

Opposition was massive. More than 700 residents signed petitions against the rezoning, and 16 neighborhood associations formally opposed the move.

More than 200 residents showed up for Tuesday’s meeting, filling City Hall chambers before packing into an adjacent overflow room. Latecomers were stuck standing in the back of the main room.

“This is not a suitable site for increased density and inadequate parking, for any use,” said Jane Kelly of the High Point Civic Association, which represents 500 homeowners.

Galloway said the church disagreed that the problems existed but offered concessions about parking and occupancy anyway, trying to satisfy residents’ concerns.

No other house of worship in the city operates under such resident demands, he said, referring before the vote to the federal Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act.

“RLUIPA indicates you can’t discriminate against churches, yet that is exactly what they are asking you to do,” he said.

City Attorney Wendell Willard said the city cannot respond to a potential challenge to the vote until a lawsuit is filed.

Residents, too, may take legal action. A land-use attorney who consulted with opponents raised the issue Tuesday that even the three-floor church would not have enough on-site parking. Two city attorneys could not definitively address whether that was accurate Tuesday night.

“We are disappointed that the easement issue was not settled satisfactorily,” Kelly said. “Everyone has to consider where we go from here.”

Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: wynot on December 16, 2009, 00:47
It seemed that a big sticking point may prove to be whether the easement for parking on the post office property was exclusive, or not, and if it was legitimately grandfathered from before the creation of the city of Sandy Springs and the cult's purchase of the property and demand for a variance. And that discussion was quickly quashed with the call to vote on the granting of the original city staff recommendations for conditions and exceptions on the zoning. I think one member of the council may have realized that the cult is already in violation of the council's variance even before it had been granted!

What I don't understand is why the cult think they have grounds for a lawsuit. The city granted them everything the zoning laws allowed! But all the cult really wants is the additional floor, and they didn't get it!

I think I can say to all the people who put their good efforts into this battle: You won! Yeah, they still own the building, and they can move into it anytime they want (they always could have done so, anyway), but their psychotic need to prove their power over MEST, and force an entire city to allow scientology to ignore community standards, and the desires of the people in that community, has been stymied!

I am in awe.

'til next time;
wynot
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Lorelei on December 17, 2009, 08:43
Can we haz party tiemz nao?
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Raven on December 17, 2009, 08:52
LOL of course!
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on January 14, 2010, 17:38
I split the lawsuit part into its own thread.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SocialTransparency on February 12, 2010, 11:08
 A tremendous amount of activity is going down @ the Sandy Springs Idle org. Its documentation time kiddies. The game just got XBOX huge.

 What will you do?
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: SocialTransparency on March 05, 2010, 15:33
Splitting scientology,s "Dateline payment" issue into another stand alone thread would be nice. It is something the local community may benefit from. Local vendors and individuals should have all the information available to them when or if they choose to do business with the local so-called church.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: mefree on March 05, 2010, 15:56
I concur.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: wynot on March 05, 2010, 22:05
I think its a good idea too...

later!
wynot
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Lorelei on March 06, 2010, 03:23
Fine by me!
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on March 08, 2010, 17:26
Dateline Paying split to here: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,4081.0.html
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Mary_McConnell on November 13, 2010, 23:38
ummm.... is this square footage more than what existed when they bought the Atlanta Ideal Org? Or was this what they presumed they could expand to once in? Just  wondering

Square Feet
In Pasadena, a Model for Scientology’s Growth PlanBy FRED A. BERNSTEIN
Published: November 9, 2010

[..] Instructions for the buildings, called “ideal orgs,” are derived from the writings of L. Ron Hubbard, the church’s founder, who died in 1986. According to a Scientology spokesman, Tommy Davis, Mr. Hubbard was “extremely specific” about how the buildings should be laid out. “There’s no interpretation involved,” he said, though he credited David Miscavige, the church’s leader, with driving the project.

Mr. Davis, a second-generation Scientologist, said the buildings, which must be at least 40,000 square feet, cost from $4 million to $20 million each, bringing the price of the current expansion to $500 million. In each case, he said, local parishioners raise money to buy and renovate the buildings.[..]
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/business/10scientology.html?_r=1&src=busln
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on November 14, 2010, 11:55
ummm.... is this square footage more than what existed when they bought the Atlanta Ideal Org? Or was this what they presumed they could expand to once in? Just  wondering
...

Mr. Davis, a second-generation Scientologist, said the buildings, which must be at least 40,000 square feet, cost from $4 million to $20 million each, bringing the price of the current expansion to $500 million. In each case, he said, local parishioners raise money to buy and renovate the buildings.[..]
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/business/10scientology.html?_r=1&src=busln

The Atlanta building was about 33,000 square feet (as I recall) when purchased, and adding the basement parking would have brought it to 44,000 +/- a little.  The building was advertised for sale as having the 44,000 sq. ft. because the real estate agent included the underground parking lot as part of the building space, which it was.

However, the original application for the variance/rezoning did not include any plans to enclose the parking area as building interior space.  It included the sanctuary on the first floor, and said that an issue with floor load (75 lbs/sq. ft. existing, 100 lbs/sq. ft. required) would be dealt with, with a sign.  The application was amended later to include enclosing the parking and putting the sanctuary there. 

L. Ron Hubbard said nothing that I've found that mentions any required area or cost - how could he have known in 1986 or before what real estate prices would be 20-25 years later?

Data Series 40 – THE IDEAL ORG (http://freezone-tech.info/?p=628)
and
http://wiseoldgoat.com/papers-scientology/hubbard_hasi_vs_ias.html#idealorg

Quite simply, Mr. Tommy Davis is lying, once again.  Some "church", huh?

Edit: modified to show the 2 separate links above; they looked like one when I saw them again after posting.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: Stutroup on November 14, 2010, 19:26
L. Ron Hubbard said nothing that I've found that mentions any required area or cost - how could he have known in 1986 or before what real estate prices would be 20-25 years later?

From my understanding, the rumored mandate for the cost or size of an ideal org comes from something leaked about how to choose which building, and how to get people to pay for a building that's not yet purchased.  In the paper/letter/order/whatever, it said that IF a building has not been decided upon, to figure out how much a building of a reasonable style and size in the desired area would cost, and try to raise that amount first.  Nowhere did it say for any org to find a building of a certain square footage or value.  But a lot of people have taken this out of context, trying to imply that CoS dictated a minimum property value or square footage.

Yes: A general description was given for the building.  And yes, this would fall into a certain price category (very expensive).  But there's not a minimum of either mandated.

Also, Hubbard's desire for orgs was Saint Hill sized orgs.  Miscavage initiated the Ideal Orgs program, and has deviated from Hubbard's desire for orgs to be the size of Saint Hill at its peak.

Either way, it's just more reasons to swindle loads of money from members.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on November 14, 2010, 20:13
Just want to clarify...  When I said area above, I meant square footage, not area of town.  My only excuse for not making it clearer the first time is that it was early (before noon).   :D
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: snippy on September 18, 2012, 16:10
Never mind, someone under investigation by the FBI is buying votes in Gwinnett County. Sandy Springs is N. Fulton County, so it's no one we know. If only the counties were square, like in Ohio.
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: ethercat on September 18, 2012, 19:31
snippy, what does this have to do with the Ideal Org in Sandy Springs?  Did I miss something?
Title: Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
Post by: snippy on April 08, 2016, 18:05
John Ruch article about upcoming Sandy Springs City Council election:

http://www.reporternewspapers.net/2016/04/08/5-candidates-now-declared-sandy-springs-city-council-race/