Author Topic: CARF and Responsibility  (Read 24294 times)

Offline BigBeard

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2012, 14:06 »
Quote
Now, when was Kent McGregor involved with CARF again?

He was involved with getting NNAH's certification in either late 1999 or early 2000, but he was involved with CARF earlier than that. I wouldn't be surprised if he infiltrated CARF when they first got involved with drug/alchohol rehab, and not just physical rehab.

Andrew Milne (anyone remember him from a.r.s.?) had this to say about him:

Quote
   Narconon (Chilocco) Arrowhead's accreditation by CARF was handled by William Kent McGregor, who at the time was a surveyor for CARF. In October 1995 Scientology PR staffer Andrew Milne said  about Kent McGregor, "Kent McGregor, a CARF evaluator and also former Single State Director for treatment and prevention in New Mexico. McGregor directed the entire planning, research, administration, and program implementation of New Mexico's substance abuse prevention and treatment authority" He cited McGregor as saying that he had surveyed Narconon's former Chilocco facility and was, "Very impressed with the professionalism of the Center . The Narconon program rates as highly in physical, administrative and clinical expertise as many of the prestigious programs that I have surveyed. In terms of outcomes, I believe it is far above".

   William Kent McGregor later joined the Narconon staff via Narconon's Science Advisory Board, and has had some interesting legal problems. Mr. McGregor works both for Narconon and CARF, which is a definite conflict of interest since he is the CARF assessor responsible for providing a supposedly independent assessments of Narconon.
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Offline ethercat

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2012, 21:31 »
EC, this seems a little unfair; presidents sign hundreds of such 'recognitions' each year (as do Governors and Mayors). I would have to imagine that a statistically significant portion of these are for organizations we might consider a little less than totally up-front... But I guess it does show the cult isn't the only org trying for false recognitions from authorities. ^^or__

wynot, I suppose this is a discussion for another place and time, in fact, I think some of us may have had this discussion before (the Donella James thread, I think?), but are you saying that these generally highly regarded politicians shouldn't be held accountable for lauding organizations that they really should research before giving them one more thing to add in their quest for credibility?

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Offline ethercat

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2012, 21:41 »
Quote
Now, when was Kent McGregor involved with CARF again?

He was involved with getting NNAH's certification in either late 1999 or early 2000, but he was involved with CARF earlier than that. I wouldn't be surprised if he infiltrated CARF when they first got involved with drug/alchohol rehab, and not just physical rehab.

Andrew Milne (anyone remember him from a.r.s.?) had this to say about him:

Quote
   Narconon (Chilocco) Arrowhead's accreditation by CARF was handled by William Kent McGregor, who at the time was a surveyor for CARF. In October 1995 Scientology PR staffer Andrew Milne said  about Kent McGregor, "Kent McGregor, a CARF evaluator and also former Single State Director for treatment and prevention in New Mexico. McGregor directed the entire planning, research, administration, and program implementation of New Mexico's substance abuse prevention and treatment authority" He cited McGregor as saying that he had surveyed Narconon's former Chilocco facility and was, "Very impressed with the professionalism of the Center . The Narconon program rates as highly in physical, administrative and clinical expertise as many of the prestigious programs that I have surveyed. In terms of outcomes, I believe it is far above".

   William Kent McGregor later joined the Narconon staff via Narconon's Science Advisory Board, and has had some interesting legal problems. Mr. McGregor works both for Narconon and CARF, which is a definite conflict of interest since he is the CARF assessor responsible for providing a supposedly independent assessments of Narconon.

Yes, I remember Andy Milne.  Thanks for adding this info about the Kent McGregor / Narconon / CARF history.  Definitely a conflict of interest there.

Some people, me included, think there should be a national standard for drug rehabs, but one thing this info about CARF and SAMHSA shows us is that unless the right method of oversight is mandated, it will be as toothless as some of the state agencies, and more toothless than some.  SAMHSA certainly hasn't done as good with research as they could.  Perhaps we should be careful what we wish for.
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Offline BigBeard

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 10:12 »
I agree, there need to be national standards for Drug/Alchohol rehab facilities and programs, and not this mish-mash of circular accredation logic that's going on now.

So how do we get the ball rolling in that direction, while at the same time insuring there will not be the built in potential for conflict of interest such as CARF currently has?
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Offline ethercat

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2012, 11:14 »
I agree, there need to be national standards for Drug/Alchohol rehab facilities and programs, and not this mish-mash of circular accredation logic that's going on now.

So how do we get the ball rolling in that direction, while at the same time insuring there will not be the built in potential for conflict of interest such as CARF currently has?

Hmmm...  that will require some thought... 

I guess I would start by saying that there should be a specific list of minimum standards, rather than relying on commercial accrediting organizations to set their own standards.  Obviously, the standards should exclude anything that is unsafe.

I would also like to see these standards pushed down to the state agencies as a minimum set of requirements.

I am not for increasing the federal burden of oversight of individual rehabs, but obviously there must be some federal oversight of the state agencies, for the purpose of enforcing the standards mentioned above.  Perhaps SAMHSA (or the federal money that goes to SAMHSA) could be repurposed toward this goal.  I am not saying SAMHSA is bad, but just that their current direction does nothing toward ensuring that bad rehabs don't stay in business.

I guess we would need to start with finding out what, if any, federal regulations exist with regard to rehabs. 

Then, as to the politics of it (not my strong suit), there would undoubtedly be a strong push against it by rehab interests that couldn't pass muster (and I am sure there are more of those than just Narconon).  Since "drug rehab" is big business, there would need to be money to counter-lobby (?) against those interests.  We would also need to consider how to counter the "schmoozing" that goes on, which we know Narconon & Scientology are good at.

I would imagine that there are people besides us who have similar goals, so the first step might be to find them, figure out if they are aligned (enough) with our goals, and, if so, form some alliances with them, and/or piggyback on their efforts.

It's a big project, I think. 
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Offline Intelligence

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2012, 20:30 »
Thanks for this Thread.
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Offline SocialTransparency

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2012, 18:37 »
 Many know CARF accredits NarCONon Arrowhead in Canadian Oklahoma.Many know of the multiple deaths that have recently occured there.

 Well it seems CARF accredited and oversee's New Life Lodge.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110821/NEWS/110170007/Details-rehab-deaths-New-Life-Lodge-emerge?nclick_check=1


 
Quote
The facility is owned by California-based CRC Health, which bought the operation for $3.8 million in 2006. CRC itself was bought the same year for $720 million by Bain Capital.

 I will NOT even go into ...


 


 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 20:46 by ethercat »

Offline ethercat

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2012, 20:45 »
Yes, it is better not to derail and/or create bad will among strangers by going into ...  We are united in wanting to see something done about Narconon, and that's the way it should stay.

 (+):-)
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Offline SocialTransparency

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2012, 22:06 »
CARF accreditation can be bought for a price. Ask the families of the dead across our nation that attended a CARF accredited facility how they feel, be it narCONon or any other rehab facility.

 The fact that CARF has political influence here in the USA should be openly discussed not censored!

 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 23:58 by SocialTransparency »

Offline ethercat

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2012, 06:31 »
The fact that CARF has political influence here in the USA should be openly discussed not censored!

Then present your facts that show that, not opinions.  Merging this with the other CARF thread.
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Offline SocialTransparency

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2012, 15:09 »
Interesting pricing and accreditation procedural facts with regard to CARF.

http://www.mcf.gov.bc.ca/accreditation/pdf/preparing_for_carf.pdf
 
Then an actual hard cost for a 3 day facility survey.

Quote
"The Survey is $1,800 per survey day and it usually takes about three days. Now this can be for a 1, 2, or 3 year Accreditation."

 So at the very least a cost of approx. $5400.00 for the survey process.

Listed below are CARF accredited NarCONon facilities that I am aware of.


Narconon of Oklahoma, Inc. (dba, Narconon Arrowhead)




This $5400.00 investment by the above entities for CARF accreditation reaps massive profits for the above listed rehab facilities.

Listed below is a political breakdown per state of CARF accredited NarCONons that I am aware of as of 7/26/2012
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oklahoma. Republican Governor  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Fallin   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Senate






My personal experience from a governmental/political party majority perspective is the state of Georgia only. Within that context, the sitting governor appoints to office the head of the DCH. Since 2003 a Republican Governor and house/senate majority have held sway over the states political landscape..

My personal experience with the state DCH has shown me at the very least here in the state of Georgia what a Republican lead majority has done legislative wise on how the DCH can operate.

.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here we have a rehab facility that is to my knowledge not a narCONon entity. New Life Lodge. New Life Lodge is accredited and overseen by CARF.

Tennessee. Republican Governor.  http://www.tn.gov/governor/   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Senate


  It is my opinion CARF operates in a political atmosphere that is conservative in nature. Within this political landscape if I were to use Georgia as a model, A Republican led political machine has fiscally and legislatively robbed the states DCH of any real ability to provide a service to we the citizenry that is desperately need!


 As the conservative political model of today leans towards privatization and governmental agency cuts backs, entities like NarCONon flourish. This lack of funding and less government allows entities with either a financial or other agenda to flourish unchecked.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 19:48 by SocialTransparency »

Offline ethercat

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2012, 17:24 »
There's no need to yell in large letters, Mr. Transparency.  Let's start here.

Listed below are CARF accredited NarCONon facilities that I am aware of.

Narconon Florida, Inc Clearwater FL
Narconon Gulf Coast, Inc. Destin FL
Narconon Hawaii
Narconon Idaho, Inc.
Narconon Inc. ( Woburn, MA)
Narconon International ( Los Angeles, CA)
Narconon Northern California,Inc ( Watsonville and Placerville, CA facilities)
Narconon of Georgia, Inc.
Narconon of Oklahoma, Inc. (dba, Narconon Arrowhead)
Narconon Joshua Hills, Inc dba Mary's House, (Desert Hot Springs, CA)
Narconon Sacramento CA
Narconon Southern California, Inc.
Newport Beach, CA and WarnerSprings, CA
Narconon StoneHawk (Battlecreek MI and Albion, MI)

Where did you get the information that all of these Narconons are certified by CARF?
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Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2012, 18:17 »
You misinterpreted my scribd comment and contents. Go re-read it and edit your post
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17124299/Narconon-CARF-Survey-Accreditation-Detail

[..] This is what CARF sent me ( my email dated 7//2008  her reply with attachment dated 7/10/2008)

Companies with Programs:
Narconon of Oklahoma, Inc. dba Narconon Arrowhead (18129)
HC 67 Box 5Canadian, OK 74425
Detoxification: Alcohol and Other Drugs/Addictions (Adults)Residential Treatment: Alcohol and Other Drugs/Addictions (Adults)
Company Count: 1

in reply to my email asking :

"Can you please send me a list of Narconon facilities in the
USA that are accredited with your agency?
Some of the known facilities are:

Narconon Florida, Inc Clearwater, FL
Narconon Gulf Coast, Inc. Destin, FL
Narconon Hawaii
Narconon Idaho, Inc.
Narconon Inc. ( Woburn, MA)
Narconon International ( Los Angeles, CA)
Narconon Northern alifornia,Inc
( Watsonville and Placerville, CA facilities)
Narconon of Georgia, Inc.
Narconon of Oklahoma, Inc. (dba, Narconon Arrowhead)
Narconon Joshua Hills, Inc dba Mary's House, (Desert Hot Springs, CA)
Narconon Sacramento CA
Narconon Southern California, Inc. ( Newport Beach, CA and Warner Springs, CA
Narconon StoneHawk (Battlecreek MI and Albion, MI)
Thank you very much! [..]
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17124299/Narconon-CARF-Survey-Accreditation-Detail
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17124395/My-Narconon-CARF-Email-Correspondence


Find an accredited Provider: ( upper right corner red icon)
http://www.carf.org/Providers.aspx?content=content/Accreditation/Opportunities/BH/What.htm

TODAY July 26, 2012

Total Results: 1

Showing 1 - 1 of 1

Provider Name City State/Province Country Parent Company
Narconon of Oklahoma, Inc. dba Narconon Arrowhead  Canadian  OK  US
-----------------------------

FYI, ST some of those Narconons are not in operation. Those file postcards the IRS and are exempt from filing 990 forms in order to keep nonprofit status.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 18:25 by Mary_McConnell »
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline Intelligence

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2012, 18:19 »
There's no need to yell in large letters, Mr. Transparency.  Let's start here.

Listed below are CARF accredited NarCONon facilities that I am aware of.

Narconon Florida, Inc Clearwater FL
Narconon Gulf Coast, Inc. Destin FL
Narconon Hawaii
Narconon Idaho, Inc.
Narconon Inc. ( Woburn, MA)
Narconon International ( Los Angeles, CA)
Narconon Northern California,Inc ( Watsonville and Placerville, CA facilities)
Narconon of Georgia, Inc.
Narconon of Oklahoma, Inc. (dba, Narconon Arrowhead)
Narconon Joshua Hills, Inc dba Mary's House, (Desert Hot Springs, CA)
Narconon Sacramento CA
Narconon Southern California, Inc.
Newport Beach, CA and WarnerSprings, CA
Narconon StoneHawk (Battlecreek MI and Albion, MI)

Where did you get the information that all of these Narconons are certified by CARF?

The ONLY Narconon I could find that was Accerdited by CARF is NN AH?


http://www.carf.org/providerSearch.aspx

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Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2012, 18:31 »
Per Wickstrom and Pamela Anderson's A Forever Recovery did receive accreditation:

Provider Profile
A Forever Recovery 216 Saint Mary's Lake Road
Battle Creek, MI 49017
US
Phone: 269-964-6731
Website:

Accredited Programs
Program Program Focus Age Group/Special Population Accreditation Decision
Residential Treatment (BH)  Alcohol and Other Drugs/Addictions  Adults  Three-Year Accreditation 
http://www.carf.org/providerProfile.aspx?cid=226727

BUT THEY ARE NOT A NARCONON PROGRAM
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 19:44 by Mary_McConnell »
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline BigBeard

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2012, 19:07 »
Back when 'Enturb' was still around one of the things we discovered was a bunch of narCONon's claiming CARF accreditation based on narCONon Arrowheads certification. Essentially they were pulling the old NN AH is accreditated, so all narCONon's using the same methods/quackery were/are also CARF accreditated. Even though they're not.

I'm curious if the 'New Life Lodge' mentioned is playing the same game? Or if they are actually accreditated, if it happened when William Kent McGregor was associated with CARF, and what if any, association he may have, or had, with New Life Lodge?
BigBeard

Offline SocialTransparency

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2012, 19:22 »
Interesting pricing and accreditation procedural facts with regard to CARF.

http://www.mcf.gov.bc.ca/accreditation/pdf/preparing_for_carf.pdf
 
Then an actual hard cost for a 3 day facility survey.

Quote
"The Survey is $1,800 per survey day and it usually takes about three days. Now this can be for a 1, 2, or 3 year Accreditation."

 So at the very least a cost of approx. $5400.00 for the survey process.

Listed below are CARF accredited NarCONon facilities that I am aware of.


Narconon of Oklahoma, Inc. (dba, Narconon Arrowhead)




This $5400.00 investment by the above entities for CARF accreditation reaps massive profits for the above listed rehab facilities.

Listed below is a political breakdown per state of CARF accredited NarCONons that I am aware of as of 7/26/2012
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oklahoma. Republican Governor  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Fallin   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Senate






My personal experience from a governmental/political party majority perspective is the state of Georgia only. Within that context, the sitting governor appoints to office the head of the DCH. Since 2003 a Republican Governor and house/senate majority have held sway over the states political landscape..

My personal experience with the state DCH has shown me at the very least here in the state of Georgia what a Republican led majority has done legislative wise on how the DCH can operate.

.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here we have a rehab facility that is to my knowledge not a narCONon entity. New Life Lodge. New Life Lodge is accredited and overseen by CARF.

Tennessee. Republican Governor.  http://www.tn.gov/governor/   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Senate


  It is my opinion CARF operates in a political atmosphere that is conservative in nature. Within this political landscape if I were to use Georgia as a model, A Republican led political machine has fiscally and legislatively robbed the states DCH of any real ability to provide a service to we the citizenry that is desperately need!


 As the conservative political model of today leans towards privatization and governmental agency cuts backs, entities like NarCONon flourish. This lack of funding and less government allows entities with either a financial or other agenda to flourish unchecked.


 I have modified my post to reflect information some of you have kindly pointed out to me as incorrect. For that I apologize. BUT, it does not change my stance, The corrected information so kindly provided by others actually reinforced the merits of my post!
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 19:47 by SocialTransparency »

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2012, 19:39 »
Interesting pricing and accreditation procedural facts with regard to CARF.

http://www.mcf.gov.bc.ca/accreditation/pdf/preparing_for_carf.pdf
 
Then an actual hard cost for a 3 day facility survey.

Quote
"The Survey is $1,800 per survey day and it usually takes about three days. Now this can be for a 1, 2, or 3 year Accreditation."

 So at the very least a cost of approx. $5400.00 for the survey process.

Listed below are CARF accredited NarCONon facilities that I am aware of.


Narconon of Oklahoma, Inc. (dba, Narconon Arrowhead)


Narconon StoneHawk (Battlecreek MI and Albion, MI)

This $5400.00 investment by the above entities for CARF accreditation reaps massive profits for the above listed rehab facilities.

Listed below is a political breakdown per state of CARF accredited NarCONons that I am aware of as of 7/26/2012
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oklahoma. Republican Governor  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Fallin   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Senate


Michigan.   Republican Governor http://www.michigan.gov/snyder             http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Senate



My personal experience from a governmental/political party majority perspective is the state of Georgia only. Within that context, the sitting governor appoints to office the head of the DCH. Since 2003 a Republican Governor and house/senate majority have held sway over the states political landscape..

My personal experience with the state DCH has shown me at the very least here in the state of Georgia what a Republican led majority has done legislative wise on how the DCH can operate.

.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here we have a rehab facility that is to my knowledge not a narCONon entity. New Life Lodge. New Life Lodge is accredited and overseen by CARF.

Tennessee. Republican Governor.  http://www.tn.gov/governor/   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Senate


  It is my opinion CARF operates in a political atmosphere that is conservative in nature. Within this political landscape if I were to use Georgia as a model, A Republican led political machine has fiscally and legislatively robbed the states DCH of any real ability to provide a service to we the citizenry that is desperately need!


 As the conservative political model of today leans towards privatization and governmental agency cuts backs, entities like NarCONon flourish. This lack of funding and less government allows entities with either a financial or other agenda to flourish unchecked.


 I have modified my post to reflect information some of you have kindly pointed out to me as incorrect. For that I apologize. BUT, it does not change my stance, The corrected information so kindly provided by others actually reinforced the merits of my post!

You STILL have it wrong. There is only 1 Narconon certified by CARF at this time.
Narconon Stone Hawk closed in 2009.

A Forever recovery, which bought out the place, is not a Narconon for all intents and purposes. There is no Narconon program there. Only a sauna componient which may or may not be run like Narconon. As far as we know, there it is not licensed by Narconon.  A Forever recovery has other program componients, including real therapy.
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline ethercat

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2012, 20:02 »
The corrected information so kindly provided by others actually reinforced the merits of my post!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies
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Offline SocialTransparency

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Re: CARF and Responsibility
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2012, 20:02 »
Interesting pricing and accreditation procedural facts with regard to CARF.

http://www.mcf.gov.bc.ca/accreditation/pdf/preparing_for_carf.pdf
 
Then an actual hard cost for a 3 day facility survey.

Quote
"The Survey is $1,800 per survey day and it usually takes about three days. Now this can be for a 1, 2, or 3 year Accreditation."

 So at the very least a cost of approx. $5400.00 for the survey process.

Listed below are CARF accredited NarCONon facilities that I am aware of.


Narconon of Oklahoma, Inc. (dba, Narconon Arrowhead)




This $5400.00 investment by the above entities for CARF accreditation reaps massive profits for the above listed rehab facility.

Listed below is a political breakdown per state of CARF accredited NarCONons that I am aware of as of 7/26/2012
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oklahoma. Republican Governor  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Fallin   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Senate






My personal experience from a governmental/political party majority perspective is the state of Georgia only. Within that context, the sitting governor appoints to office the head of the DCH. Since 2003 a Republican Governor and house/senate majority have held sway over the states political landscape..

My personal experience with the state DCH has shown me at the very least here in the state of Georgia what a Republican led majority has done legislative wise on how the DCH can operate.

.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here we have a rehab facility that is to my knowledge not a narCONon entity. New Life Lodge. New Life Lodge is accredited and overseen by CARF.

Tennessee. Republican Governor.  http://www.tn.gov/governor/   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Senate


  It is my opinion CARF operates in a political atmosphere that is conservative in nature. Within this political landscape if I were to use Georgia as a model, A Republican led political machine has fiscally and legislatively robbed the states DCH of any real ability to provide a service to we the citizenry that is desperately need!


 As the conservative political model of today leans towards privatization and governmental agency cuts backs, entities like NarCONon flourish. This lack of funding and less government allows entities with either a financial or other agenda to flourish unchecked.


 I have modified my post to reflect information some of you have kindly pointed out to me as incorrect. For that I apologize. BUT, it does not change my stance, The corrected information so kindly provided by others actually reinforced the merits of my post!
Fixed. Less governmental oversight opens up multiple venues for abuse of the system. No checks and balances.