Author Topic: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths (Was Re: Narconon Deaths)  (Read 49262 times)

Offline BigBeard

  • Hill 10 Situation
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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #80 on: November 20, 2012, 13:08 »
I said this over on WWP, but it bears repeating over here.

I'm hoping Fox calls out Gary Smith on how you can "secularize" El Rums works that are identical to $cientology "scriptures" just by removing references to $cientology?? That'd be like lifting quotes from the Book of Proverbs that don't mention God and calling it a secular 'Guide to Life'. It doesn't wash. Maybe Fox could get an on camera opinion from the OK ACLU on the very idea.
BigBeard

Offline snippy

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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #81 on: November 20, 2012, 16:18 »
I agree. I'd also like to see the media get more specific about what the "training routines" and other "studies" actually accomplish.  There is at least one YouTube that attempts to show how auditing is classic mind control with trigger words and so on. I haven't looked into it much, but I think the "counseling" they do is as dangerous to a recovering person as the quack detox and fake support system.

From what I've seen, rehab has three important components:
  • Medically sound support to help the person with withdrawal and restore physical health
  • Valid counseling to help the person regain mental health and emotional stability
  • A respect for the person's spiritual orientation.

NN fails all three, but how they do harm in the last two areas needs to be explained more clearly (somewhere).

Offline Intelligence

  • Hill 10 Situation
  • Posts: 706
Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #82 on: November 20, 2012, 16:33 »
I said this over on WWP, but it bears repeating over here.

I'm hoping Fox calls out Gary Smith on how you can "secularize" El Rums works that are identical to $cientology "scriptures" just by removing references to $cientology?? That'd be like lifting quotes from the Book of Proverbs that don't mention God and calling it a secular 'Guide to Life'. It doesn't wash. Maybe Fox could get an on camera opinion from the OK ACLU on the very idea.

There are about 2,800 pages in the 8 Narconon Course Books which I and Professor Stephen Kent have read several times. Kent has stated under oath that all books are 100% Scientology. I have reviewed these books and compared to COS books as seen below.

The ONLY thing SECULAR about Narconon and their books, is the EXPANSION of Scientology into
the SECULAR COMMUNITY. All on here know and are aware of this, but I agree; the Media needs
to know and ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. I believe this will come in time :)

My Notes in "RED" - -

An Ol' Irish Quote:
“You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, 'Why not?'”

Offline mefree

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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #83 on: November 20, 2012, 19:00 »
I agree. I'd also like to see the media get more specific about what the "training routines" and other "studies" actually accomplish.  There is at least one YouTube that attempts to show how auditing is classic mind control with trigger words and so on. I haven't looked into it much, but I think the "counseling" they do is as dangerous to a recovering person as the quack detox and fake support system.

From what I've seen, rehab has three important components:
  • Medically sound support to help the person with withdrawal and restore physical health
  • Valid counseling to help the person regain mental health and emotional stability
  • A respect for the person's spiritual orientation.

NN fails all three, but how they do harm in the last two areas needs to be explained more clearly (somewhere).

Let's start with the Scientology lingo. Imagine that English is your second language and you are very fluent. Here comes Narconon with its batshit Hubbardisms. How confusing is it to be given new meanings for words you have previously learned?

Scientology indoctrination is all about mind control.
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Intelligence

  • Hill 10 Situation
  • Posts: 706
Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #84 on: November 20, 2012, 19:16 »
I agree. I'd also like to see the media get more specific about what the "training routines" and other "studies" actually accomplish.  There is at least one YouTube that attempts to show how auditing is classic mind control with trigger words and so on. I haven't looked into it much, but I think the "counseling" they do is as dangerous to a recovering person as the quack detox and fake support system.

From what I've seen, rehab has three important components:
  • Medically sound support to help the person with withdrawal and restore physical health
  • Valid counseling to help the person regain mental health and emotional stability
  • A respect for the person's spiritual orientation.

NN fails all three, but how they do harm in the last two areas needs to be explained more clearly (somewhere).

Let's start with the Scientology lingo. Imagine that English is your second language and you are very fluent. Here comes Narconon with its batshit Hubbardisms. How confusing is it to be given new meanings for words you have previously learned?

Scientology indoctrination is all about mind control.

AND, this mind control indoctrination BEGINS in the withdrawal stage within the first hour
of a patient being admitted to NN. The harm begins in the FIRST area that, then proceeds to,
and is increased in the next two or more. TR's, Light-Objectives, and Assists, are the initial
processes in the Withdrawal Unit. This is the phase where the Patient is Assesed to interpret
whether they will cooperate with Staff when transfered out of WD and into the main Course Books.

Even on the Assist Table, the Victim begins to be mind-contoled through positive afirmations, for
example: The patients is instructed to "SAY YES" eg; "Feel my finger" - REPLY "YES", then
"Thank-You", then feel my finger and back and forth responses for quite some time of "YES"
reponses.

Then the "Feel my Hand" - - reponse - "YES", with a Staff replying, "Thank You, Great, Execllent",
in sporatic order to the patient's "YES" response.

Light-Objectives in WD are done in the same way to control the patient by having them respond
to Staff commands. I have seen Patients break down in tears, sobbing because these processes went on for hours, non-stop. The patient PLEADING to STOP!

Makes me feel ill just revisiting the event - - so sad and evil!

.
An Ol' Irish Quote:
“You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, 'Why not?'”

Offline snippy

  • Supressive Person
  • Posts: 396
Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #85 on: November 20, 2012, 22:30 »
Quote
How confusing is it to be given new meanings for words you have previously learned?

Exactamento! Long version:

L Ron Hubbard's Use of the "Confusion Technique" to Induce Hypnosis in Scientology

Short version:

Quote
When employing the confusion technique verbally, steps are taken via verbal wording to overload the subject’s mental abilities. This can be done using a play on words such as "knows, nose, nos." Furthermore, irrelevancies and nonsequiturs can also be employed to achieve the desired results.

Quote
No pattern of questions and answers is permitted to develop, nor do the questions themselves relate logically to each other. In this strange atmosphere the subject finds that the pattern of speech and thought which he has learned to consider normal have been replaced by an eerie meaninglessness. The interrogatee may start laughing or refuse to take the situation seriously. But as the process continues, day after day if necessary, the subject begins to try to make sense of the situation, which becomes mentally intolerable. Now he is likely to make significant admissions, or even to pour out his story, just to stop the flow of babble which assails him.


Offline snippy

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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #86 on: November 20, 2012, 22:47 »

AND, this mind control indoctrination BEGINS in the withdrawal stage within the first hour
of a patient being admitted to NN. The harm begins in the FIRST area that, then proceeds to,
and is increased in the next two or more. TR's, Light-Objectives, and Assists, are the initial
processes in the Withdrawal Unit. This is the phase where the Patient is Assessed to interpret
whether they will cooperate with Staff when transferred out of WD and into the main Course Books.

Even on the Assist Table, the Victim begins to be mind-controlled through positive affirmations, for
example: The patients is instructed to "SAY YES" eg; "Feel my finger" - REPLY "YES", then
"Thank-You", then feel my finger and back and forth responses for quite some time of "YES"
responses.

Then the "Feel my Hand" - - response - "YES", with a Staff replying, "Thank You, Great, Excellent",
in sporatic order to the patient's "YES" response.

Light-Objectives in WD are done in the same way to control the patient by having them respond
to Staff commands. I have seen Patients break down in tears, sobbing because these processes went on for hours, non-stop. The patient PLEADING to STOP!

Makes me feel ill just revisiting the event - - so sad and evil!


This makes me SO angry! It is such a violation and it has to be a major mind fck for any counselor also.  Damn them.

Offline Intelligence

  • Hill 10 Situation
  • Posts: 706
Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #87 on: November 20, 2012, 22:55 »

AND, this mind control indoctrination BEGINS in the withdrawal stage within the first hour
of a patient being admitted to NN. The harm begins in the FIRST area that, then proceeds to,
and is increased in the next two or more. TR's, Light-Objectives, and Assists, are the initial
processes in the Withdrawal Unit. This is the phase where the Patient is Assessed to interpret
whether they will cooperate with Staff when transferred out of WD and into the main Course Books.

Even on the Assist Table, the Victim begins to be mind-controlled through positive affirmations, for
example: The patients is instructed to "SAY YES" eg; "Feel my finger" - REPLY "YES", then
"Thank-You", then feel my finger and back and forth responses for quite some time of "YES"
responses.

Then the "Feel my Hand" - - response - "YES", with a Staff replying, "Thank You, Great, Excellent",
in sporatic order to the patient's "YES" response.

Light-Objectives in WD are done in the same way to control the patient by having them respond
to Staff commands. I have seen Patients break down in tears, sobbing because these processes went on for hours, non-stop. The patient PLEADING to STOP!

Makes me feel ill just revisiting the event - - so sad and evil!


This makes me SO angry! It is such a violation and it has to be a major mind fck for any counselor also.  Damn them.

It IS a mind FK and also makes me so VERY angry. Especially when the Victim comes to
them very sick in Withdrawals. In physical and serious emotional PAIN. Brain-Washing
happens more in prisoner of war situations where the prisoner KNOWS their adversray.
With "Mind-Control" manipulation, the Victim only KNOWS the NN Staff as someone who
they TRUST ,...., and the Victim does not give permission to be taught Scientology Religious
Doctrines. At COS ORGS, the public KNOWS, but not the NN Victim.

It's bloody criminal, IMO, and I think the Feds (FBI), should address how these Victims are
conned into NN by Interstate Fraud and ONLINE Scams, as per their Mandate. Keeping fingers
crossed that this will happen in due course?

.
An Ol' Irish Quote:
“You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, 'Why not?'”

Offline snippy

  • Supressive Person
  • Posts: 396
Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #88 on: November 20, 2012, 23:07 »
OK you brought it up.  From Wikipedia:

Quote
Third Geneva Convention
    Part II: General Protection of Prisoners of War
        Articles 13 to 16 state that prisoners of war must be treated humanely without any adverse discrimination and that their medical needs must be met.

Can't find the rules of interrogation right now, but I'm fantasizing about an effective UN swooping down on them.

Offline Intelligence

  • Hill 10 Situation
  • Posts: 706
Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #89 on: November 20, 2012, 23:12 »
OK you brought it up.  From Wikipedia:

Quote
Third Geneva Convention
    Part II: General Protection of Prisoners of War
        Articles 13 to 16 state that prisoners of war must be treated humanely without any adverse discrimination and that their medical needs must be met.

Indeed, this ^^^ is how it's supposed to be. I think it was published before Guantanamo Bay?

Here is a wee page that explains the mind control in simple terms. I LIKE simple :-)
http://www.howcultswork.com/

.
An Ol' Irish Quote:
“You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, 'Why not?'”

Offline mefree

  • High Value Target
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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #90 on: November 20, 2012, 23:29 »

AND, this mind control indoctrination BEGINS in the withdrawal stage within the first hour
of a patient being admitted to NN. The harm begins in the FIRST area that, then proceeds to,
and is increased in the next two or more. TR's, Light-Objectives, and Assists, are the initial
processes in the Withdrawal Unit. This is the phase where the Patient is Assessed to interpret
whether they will cooperate with Staff when transferred out of WD and into the main Course Books.

Even on the Assist Table, the Victim begins to be mind-controlled through positive affirmations, for
example: The patients is instructed to "SAY YES" eg; "Feel my finger" - REPLY "YES", then
"Thank-You", then feel my finger and back and forth responses for quite some time of "YES"
responses.

Then the "Feel my Hand" - - response - "YES", with a Staff replying, "Thank You, Great, Excellent",
in sporatic order to the patient's "YES" response.

Light-Objectives in WD are done in the same way to control the patient by having them respond
to Staff commands. I have seen Patients break down in tears, sobbing because these processes went on for hours, non-stop. The patient PLEADING to STOP!

Makes me feel ill just revisiting the event - - so sad and evil!


This makes me SO angry! It is such a violation and it has to be a major mind fck for any counselor also.  Damn them.

I'm with you, Snippy.  Let's face it; entering treatment is a major feat unto itself. For the poor souls entering Narconon, instead of medical detox, counseling, talking about feelings or tools for sobriety they get this crap! Of course, that's if the sauna and vitamin bombs are survived.
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline snippy

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  • Posts: 396
Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths
« Reply #91 on: November 20, 2012, 23:51 »

...  Let's face it; entering treatment is a major feat unto itself. For the poor souls entering Narconon, instead of medical detox, counseling, talking about feelings or tools for sobriety they get this crap! Of course, that's if the sauna and vitamin bombs are survived.

Well said, mefree, and you know this is exactly why the suicides belong on the list of deaths. It is NN's abusive mind control routines, which invalidate an already emotionally fragile person's sense of reality, that have pushed people over the edge.

Offline CoolHand

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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths (Was Re: Narconon Deaths)
« Reply #92 on: April 16, 2013, 07:07 »
This just in from the head of the  Field Control Division at Narconon Arrowhead (forwarded to me):

Quote
Dear FSM,

Please help us save lives from the scourge of drug addiction.  Send you referrals to Narconon Arrowhead NOW!  The technology of drug rehabilitation has never been better.

With the onslaught of prescription drug abuse, comes a whole new era in the treatment of these addictions.  Our withdrawal team and case supervision team is trained on the peculiarities of these situations and is getting more trained daily.  We have a four man team on the ground from Narconon International assisting, and lives are being turned around faster and smoother than ever.  We are getting products like never before, as well as the quality hitting new highs.

With the advent of the new Addiction Referral Specialist program, making your selections and earning your fee is also easier than ever before.  If you haven’t received you copy of this exciting new program or have questions regarding it, contact us as soon as possible.  You don’t want to miss out on this!

We in the Field Control Division will be getting a hold of you by email or phone in the very near future. We can handle any question or considerations you may have and will do all we can to help rehabilitate your purpose -  to help save lives from addiction.  But you don’t have to wait either, feel free to contact us at anytime.

So, things are so bad they have a four-man team from Narconon International on the ground running there (dumb admission) and they've made it easier than ever to get a commission for sending someone there (which is because without the false third-party validation/referral very few people would go).

Offline Mary_McConnell

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    • Formerly Fooled Finally Free of The Deceptive Cult Called Scientology
Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths (Was Re: Narconon Deaths)
« Reply #93 on: April 16, 2013, 07:43 »
This just in from the head of the  Field Control Division at Narconon Arrowhead (forwarded to me):

Quote
Dear FSM,

Please help us save lives from the scourge of drug addiction.  Send you referrals to Narconon Arrowhead NOW!  The technology of drug rehabilitation has never been better.

With the onslaught of prescription drug abuse, comes a whole new era in the treatment of these addictions.  Our withdrawal team and case supervision team is trained on the peculiarities of these situations and is getting more trained daily.  We have a four man team on the ground from Narconon International assisting, and lives are being turned around faster and smoother than ever.  We are getting products like never before, as well as the quality hitting new highs.

With the advent of the new Addiction Referral Specialist program, making your selections and earning your fee is also easier than ever before.  If you haven’t received you copy of this exciting new program or have questions regarding it, contact us as soon as possible.  You don’t want to miss out on this!

We in the Field Control Division will be getting a hold of you by email or phone in the very near future. We can handle any question or considerations you may have and will do all we can to help rehabilitate your purpose -  to help save lives from addiction.  But you don’t have to wait either, feel free to contact us at anytime.

So, things are so bad they have a four-man team from Narconon International on the ground running there (dumb admission) and they've made it easier than ever to get a commission for sending someone there (which is because without the false third-party validation/referral very few people would go).

 3((: Going LRH ... based upon the Scientology Field Staff Member commissions system! I'd like to hope that Narconon Fresh Start's fake referral docs I posted contributed to this new effort? LOL!
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,12330.0.html
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline mefree

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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths (Was Re: Narconon Deaths)
« Reply #94 on: April 16, 2013, 18:09 »
Quote
Send your referrals NOW!

A tad desperate?
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline ethercat

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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths (Was Re: Narconon Deaths)
« Reply #95 on: April 17, 2013, 11:26 »
This just in from the head of the  Field Control Division at Narconon Arrowhead (forwarded to me):

Quote
Dear FSM,

Please help us save lives from the scourge of drug addiction.  Send you referrals to Narconon Arrowhead NOW!  The technology of drug rehabilitation has never been better.

With the onslaught of prescription drug abuse, comes a whole new era in the treatment of these addictions.  Our withdrawal team and case supervision team is trained on the peculiarities of these situations and is getting more trained daily.  We have a four man team on the ground from Narconon International assisting, and lives are being turned around faster and smoother than ever.  We are getting products like never before, as well as the quality hitting new highs.

Prescription drug abuse is nothing new.   ???  They sound like drug dealers themselves. 
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Offline Cigul

  • Met Xenu
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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths (Was Re: Narconon Deaths)
« Reply #96 on: April 17, 2013, 11:36 »
Ecat, I was taking one of the staff courses (in 2011, mind you) and read from the course book about the dangers of the increasing number of beatniks. Literally, "beatniks." I'd say that Narconon just now catching up to prescription drug abuse is pretty good for that bunch! Must give credit where credit is due.
The highest good is like water.
It flows in places men reject and so is like the Tao.

Offline ethercat

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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths (Was Re: Narconon Deaths)
« Reply #97 on: April 18, 2013, 11:10 »
Ecat, I was taking one of the staff courses (in 2011, mind you) and read from the course book about the dangers of the increasing number of beatniks. Literally, "beatniks." I'd say that Narconon just now catching up to prescription drug abuse is pretty good for that bunch! Must give credit where credit is due.

Hahahaha!  I guess they've been busy studying what Hubbard said to do for so long, all his advice is outdated now.  But carry on as long as you can, Narconon.  Your days are numbered.  Literally:

April 18: Thursday 2pm
April 25: Thursday 2pm
May 2: Thursday 2pm
May 9: Thursday 2pm
May 16: Thursday 2pm
May 23: Thursday 2pm
etc....
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Offline Mary_McConnell

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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths (Was Re: Narconon Deaths)
« Reply #98 on: April 18, 2013, 18:32 »
^^^  3((:

Ecat, I was taking one of the staff courses (in 2011, mind you) and read from the course book about the dangers of the increasing number of beatniks. Literally, "beatniks." I'd say that Narconon just now catching up to prescription drug abuse is pretty good for that bunch! Must give credit where credit is due.

I think the reason is similar to what they use Dear Alice clips from Alice in Wonderland aka Alice Through The Looking Glass. They used that word was because it was a non-thing, one that one did not have to think about so as to not take away attention from the lesson. Pretty much everything can be statistically used in business but the word beatniks aren't and the word would not require you to imagine hard;  it's nonsensical and doesn't produce much of an "MU" ... so Hubbard claims.
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline ethercat

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Re: Narconon Oklahoma Multiple Deaths (Was Re: Narconon Deaths)
« Reply #99 on: April 18, 2013, 21:20 »
Hubbard was just mad that the beatniks probably wanted nothing to do with him - they were cooler than he was and he was jealous.  Like with the "psychs" who were real scientists as opposed to Hubbard's pseudo science and "research".
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