Author Topic: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN  (Read 6991 times)

Offline BMF

  • Potential Trouble Source
  • Posts: 240
  • Do or Do Not. There is no try.
Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« on: December 14, 2012, 10:10 »
With NNsfocus on money and packing people into the centers i wanted to bring to light the topic of health risks for just living at a center for 3 plus months while on the

At most rehabs you have professional cleaners, with NN you have the students in charge of the daily cleaning.  Think about it....

Another area is STD's.  i have not seen one center provide information on this subject yet students are left virtually alone at night to do as they please.  How many people contracted something that could have been avoided had NN provided proper literature and training on STDs?

« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 22:25 by BMF »
"But now," says the Once-ler, "Now that you're here,
the word of the Lorax seems perfectly clear.
UNLESS someone like you,
cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. Its not!"   - Dr. Seuss

Offline BigBeard

  • Hill 10 Situation
  • Posts: 657
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2012, 14:28 »
Actually, STDs wouldn't be an issue if patients/students/staff were properly supervised instead of being left to interact however they want.

BigBeard

Offline BMF

  • Potential Trouble Source
  • Posts: 240
  • Do or Do Not. There is no try.
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2012, 17:12 »
True.  A local $10/hour security guard is no match for horny students.
"But now," says the Once-ler, "Now that you're here,
the word of the Lorax seems perfectly clear.
UNLESS someone like you,
cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. Its not!"   - Dr. Seuss

Offline BigBeard

  • Hill 10 Situation
  • Posts: 657
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2012, 18:29 »
I was thinking more along the lines of a full time doctor, and trained medical staff, on site than a security guard.

BigBeard

Offline snippy

  • Supressive Person
  • Posts: 396
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2012, 19:01 »
Those things would help. Throw in a recovery program based on modern science, instead of a quack sauna-vitamin detox and quack hypnotism delivered by entrapped ex-clients fresh out of rehab who have been convinced they have no where else to go; that would be safer. Of course, bed bugs and STD's have a much higher gross-out factor.   ;)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 19:11 by snippy »

Offline Cigul

  • Met Xenu
  • Posts: 39
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 21:36 »
I've never experienced either, but I HAVE experienced Narconon. So I feel qualified to say, give me a scorching case of herpes any day. Hell, give me bed bugs WITH herpes any day.
The highest good is like water.
It flows in places men reject and so is like the Tao.

Offline mefree

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 4,369
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2012, 21:53 »
I've never experienced either, but I HAVE experienced Narconon. So I feel qualified to say, give me a scorching case of herpes any day. Hell, give me bed bugs WITH herpes any day.

Lol! I'm convinced.

But seriously, from constantly relapsing staff members, and ease of access to drugs, to relapsing FSM's with an incentive to recruit new clients for commissions, "cough" drug money, etc, etc. The Narconon environment is unsafe and sustains the cycle of addiction.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 00:01 by mefree »
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline ethercat

  • Global Moderator
  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 3,770
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 10:26 »
Thank you for bringing up this topic, BMF.  In addition to the "gross-out factor", as snippy put it, there are also the problems inherent with people not getting their prescribed medications, staff not recognizing or acknowledging signs of actual physical distress, and the desperation to keep the students (read: money) that drives the staff to tell and convince parents or loved ones that "it's the addict talking" when someone rightfully complains of physical problems.

Narconon wants to do everything the absolute cheapest way they can, and because properly qualified staff costs more than using "student" labor, and hiring security guards is cheaper than doctors and nurses, I would not expect to see any of that changed without it being forced on them.

Narconon has no clue what "professional" means or is.  But because they follow what L. Ron Hubbard said, they "are the authorities."   ::)
   Narconon Reviews
   Independent Reviews of the Narconon Drug Rehab Programs
   Answers to Frequently Asked But Seldom Answered Questions

Offline snippy

  • Supressive Person
  • Posts: 396
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 16:49 »
Being an advocate of mental health parity, I would add that a serious risk of Narconon is that they subject patients to the mind control techniques of what is politely called "Scientology indoctrination." Recently a parent rescued their child from a Narconon and described this:

Quote
(from Patriot75 @ WWP)

    We just rescued a family member from a NarCONon [Arrowhead] facility! I must say it is very sad and degenerate for them to use unsuspecting people in dire straights! This is sick and must be stopped! We were scammed from the start. When said family member was picked up we thought they were dosed on something but, we have since come to believe said family member was actually under hypnosis.

Source https://www.facebook.com/BuyerBeware/posts/508961532458958


In the book Dangerous Persuaders, the author, Louise Samways, says

Quote
It has been assumed by many traditional hypnotherapists that you cannot get people to do something they do not really want to do by hypnotising them. This has been a comforting thought to clinicians, and may well be true if the person knows they are being hypnotised. But from my discussions with many patients involved in these groups, and my observations of their techniques, I do not believe this is true if a person is participating in hypnosis without being aware of it. This is particularly true where confusional techniques are used. Confusional techniques [like Scientology's Alice in Wonderland sessions] give the person contradictory instructions, tasks to complete, or information that just doesn’t make sense. The critical mind becomes so overwhelmed trying to evaluate what is being said or done that it just gives up trying.

The section below from her book describes group hypnosis, but contains some important points. Earlier she discusses how hypnosis works and also how regulations regarding the proper and ethical use of hypnosis techniques only apply to licensed medical professionals, which ironically means anyone else, ethical or not, may use these techniques for any purpose what-so-ever without any accountability for harm done. And from the quote below, well ...


Quote
Manipulating groups

While there is a general lack of awareness in the community about the misuse of psychological techniques, this is exacerbated by a similar lack of awareness amongst most psychologists and psychiatrists of the psychodynamics of very large groups. They do not know of the difference between techniques that can be used to manipulate large groups and those that are employed to achieve the same outcome with an individual.

Psychologists and psychiatrists have intensive and long training in helping individuals. Sometimes (if they do extra training) they can help through working with small groups (about eight people). They have no training in working with groups of several hundred. The use of traditional hypnosis with individuals in therapy requires an extra two-year training course, so few psychologists and psychiatrists have a detailed knowledge of traditional hypnosis techniques.

Such ignorance of how hypnosis can be achieved in large meetings has resulted in a small number of health professionals attending sessions, succumbing to the group hypnosis and then themselves becoming involved in these groups. Such professionals have been quickly used by the organisations to give credibility to what they are doing. In fact, it was not until I had observed meetings of these groups myself, spoken to many people who had been involved and done a great deal of reading from overseas that I became aware myself of the connection between what is done with individual patients in hypnosis and what was being attempted on a mass as well as individual scale by these cults, gurus, leaders and masters. The psychological process employed by them was the same as hypnosis, although the techniques and methods used to gain psychological control of groups were not those traditionally associated with hypnotism.

It also became apparent why people can be so easy to manipulate in these situations. If you tell somebody you are going to help them become hypnotised, then unless that person wants to be hypnotised it can be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get them to enter a suggestible state. However, if you don’t inform the person you are going to use hypnosis and then you create the right conditions, hypnotising a subject is extremely easy, while the person involved may be completely unaware of what is happening.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 19:26 by snippy »

Offline mefree

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 4,369
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 19:14 »
 Y--O-|| @u@ooo
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Mary_McConnell

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 2,911
    • Formerly Fooled Finally Free of The Deceptive Cult Called Scientology
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 23:02 »
Pregnancy of minors is another issue. There is a current lawsuit against one of the Narconons and one of the complaints is that a minor child got pregnant by a staff member while there. Due to privacy issues, I am not mentioning the lawsuit.
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline snippy

  • Supressive Person
  • Posts: 396
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 01:09 »
How very classy Narconon.  :(

Offline mefree

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 4,369
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2012, 08:16 »
Pregnancy of minors is another issue. There is a current lawsuit against one of the Narconons and one of the complaints is that a minor child got pregnant by a staff member while there. Due to privacy issues, I am not mentioning the lawsuit.

Narconon is toast!
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Cigul

  • Met Xenu
  • Posts: 39
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 20:29 »
In addition to all of the good points raised in this thread, I would mention the threat to students who come in suffering with a severe/persistant mental illness. While Narconon staff will say that this "isn't Narconon's population," as we are all aware, anyone with money is their population.

A little background on me: I have a Master's in psychology and I specialized and in treating adults with severe mental illness an co-occuring drug addiction. (It is a testament to how far into the abyss of addiction I myself had fallen to have been so desperate that I was ready to try anything, including Narconon, to get better. It is a testament to their ability to brainwash that I stayed.) Current research suggests the the rate of comorbidity of severe MI and drug abuse/addiction is AT LEAST 50%. Therefore, it is no stretch to believe that many of the unfortunate souls who end up at Narconon, receiving "treatment" from young recently recovered addicts with little to no experience with real life, nevermind any real training, is likely significant. I recall a conversation I had with the big chief of the withdraw house in Huntington Beach. He was explaining to me how toxic psyche meds are and how he would rather work with someone withdrawing from any street drug than a student withdrawing from Seroquel (which is an anti-psychotic used in the treatment of schizophrenia and more rarely used with bipolar disorder). He went on to describe the horrible, horrible withdraw from that drug. Everything he described, from difficulty with mood regulation to delusional thinking, hallucinations, extreme paranoia, and erratic, sometimes violent behavior is EXACTLY what you would expect to see when someone with schizophrenia stops taking their medication. Go figure.

I personally encountered two people who I can say with 100% certainty have schizophrenia. Both had classic symptoms of the illness. One, a young man, I encountered as a staff member and I raised such hell that I truly believe the ED got nervous and he was "routed out." The other, an incredibly intelligent but very sick young lady, started the program roughly a week after I did and still had not finished when I finally got the eff out. She was in sauna for, as I recall, 49 days, because she continued to have "turn-ons" and thus could not EP. Mind you, her turn-ons consisted of her continuously responding to internal stimuli. That is, she was forever conversing with the voices she was hearing. She was a chronic alcoholic. It is nothing short of a miracle that she survived the doses of niacin she received. Of course, who knows what further damage was done to her liver?


And here is the piece that genuinely keeps me up at night. Everytime someone with schizophrenia stops taking their medication and has a psychotic break, the break is worse than the one before. It usually requires more medication to return them to baseline, and often their baseline is actually lowered and they never again return to the same level of functioning. And there is actual, physical damage that occurs in the brain during this process. That damage cannot be reversed.

I apologize for the lengthy post but this happens to be a topic about which I am most passionate.
The highest good is like water.
It flows in places men reject and so is like the Tao.

Offline mefree

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 4,369
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2013, 22:36 »
^^^
So very sad.  :.{....
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Mary_McConnell

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 2,911
    • Formerly Fooled Finally Free of The Deceptive Cult Called Scientology
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2013, 09:00 »
I just saw this, Cigul! Thank you for writing this up. You reminded me of what happened to Harris Evans when he was taken out of a mental hospital by Narconon staff ( after they took his mother's money to do the NN program saying it would help him) and then took him off his psych medicines, causing Evans to go further psychotic. When they didn't want to deal with his delusions and hallucinations anymore, instead of taking him to the emergency room as the mother begged, Narconon then dumped him on the street, telling her to come pick him up and the general area where to find him. They drove from Los Angeles county to Norther California and finally found him and got him to get in the car to go with them. While driving home, the extremely agitated Harris Evans strangled and killed his stepfather:

Quote
Castaic resident accused of murder
Santa Clarita Valley News March 15, 2011 1:55 a.m.
Crime: Man charged with strangling stepfather on I-5 expected in court this month

A Castaic man has been charged with murder after he allegedly strangled his stepfather while the two were traveling on Interstate 5 on Jan. 14, according to a criminal complaint The Signal obtained Monday.

Harris Evans, 23, of Rocca Drive, is charged with murder and attempted murder in the death of Robert Gallion, 39, of Burbank, according to a Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office complaint.
http://www.signalscv.com/archives/51687/   
      
This was a preventable tragedy and a terrible loss of young life.   The mother, the siblings and Evans are suing Narconon, rightfully so
   


Narconon Northern California, Vista Bay current cases
http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,6462.msg22863.html#msg22863

Quote
This is filed in Superior Court of Los Angeles
Case Number BC481342
Anise Evans vs Narconon Northern California, Dr Steven Stein ( Med Dir NN) Mike DiPalma, Harris Evans - Plaintiff attorney Eric I Ryanen of Rizzo & Nelson,  Santa Ana
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Stop-Narconon/Lawsuits/Evans/Evans%20Vs.%20Narconon.pdf
 
Case # BC481302 is also filed in Superior Court of Los Angeles
The patient is also suing NN, the Doc and staff member
Harris Evans vs Narconon Northern California, Dr Steven Stein ( Med Dir NN) Mike DiPalma
for Med Malpractice (Drs & Surgeons) (General Jurisdiction)
 ( Traut Firm, of Santa Ana, reps plaintiff)
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Stop-Narconon/Lawsuits/Evans/Harris%20Evans%20Vs.%20Narconon.pdf
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline ethercat

  • Global Moderator
  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 3,770
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2013, 11:51 »
I recall a conversation I had with the big chief of the withdraw house in Huntington Beach. He was explaining to me how toxic psyche meds are and how he would rather work with someone withdrawing from any street drug than a student withdrawing from Seroquel (which is an anti-psychotic used in the treatment of schizophrenia and more rarely used with bipolar disorder). He went on to describe the horrible, horrible withdraw from that drug. Everything he described, from difficulty with mood regulation to delusional thinking, hallucinations, extreme paranoia, and erratic, sometimes violent behavior is EXACTLY what you would expect to see when someone with schizophrenia stops taking their medication. Go figure.

So this guy at Huntington Harbor House, if he encountered someone with schizophrenia and knew nothing else about them, would attribute the behavior to withdrawal from Seroquel, and not to the underlying schizophrenia, even if the person had never taken Seroquel.  This is an example of how well-equipped Narconon and its "professionals" are to be in a field where some sort of mental illness is present in at least 50% of the people they purport to help.

Question about Huntington Harbor House: Is it used just as a withdrawal house and then clients are sent on to another one of Fresh Start's facilities to complete the program?  Or does it sometimes deliver the complete Narconon program?
   Narconon Reviews
   Independent Reviews of the Narconon Drug Rehab Programs
   Answers to Frequently Asked But Seldom Answered Questions

Offline Mary_McConnell

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 2,911
    • Formerly Fooled Finally Free of The Deceptive Cult Called Scientology
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2013, 13:03 »
Huntington Harbor House is a 6 bed Residential facility licensed for residential treatment and detox. I am not sure if they just use it as a withdrawal house... but from what I have read, it's a stand alone facility housing 6 patients at a time through the program.
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline Cigul

  • Met Xenu
  • Posts: 39
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2013, 13:19 »
Huntington is exclusively detox. At least it was so when I was there.
The highest good is like water.
It flows in places men reject and so is like the Tao.

Offline Mary_McConnell

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 2,911
    • Formerly Fooled Finally Free of The Deceptive Cult Called Scientology
Re: Health Risks for students during their stay at NN
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2013, 13:30 »
Huntington is exclusively detox. At least it was so when I was there.

OK, so the student live there while detoxing and then get sent on... makes sense. Do they do medical detox there with Dr Sosin?
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.