Author Topic: Here's how NN Int handles the news of millions of dollars of insurance fraud  (Read 10283 times)

Offline Patty Moher

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Thanks, Patty.  Nice to have you calling BS too.  I know it's been a while since you were at Narconon in Connecticut (and since they closed), but have you noticed any differences in the way the Narconons operate generally since you were there, based on more recent reports you've read?

Hi Ethercat, Happy to help in anyway and I truly appreciate your efforts as well as all the members of the tipping point for your work on exposing Narconon.  Based on the latest news you folks are kicking some serious ass!

Anywayz, back to your question.  I've noticed a huge difference.  NN is now run more like and by the cult than ever.  I'm an oldie.  I joined the cult via NN CT back in 1973.  That's 40 years ago and a whole different world including the fact that there was no internet!

Back in the 70's NN didn't even have their own course packs.  The used Scn course packs.  Ours came from the Scientology Mission of New Britian, CT. 

Also, there's always been a huge push to get gov't funding, but those greedy bastards figured out how to scam the insurance companies (as only Scientologists can do ) and I'm quite sure that they have been ripping off insurance companies as part of their condition formulas! 

I've written up some of my Narconon experience here. 

http://www.xenu-directory.net/accounts/pieniadz20060302b.html

If I can be of any assistance, just let me know.

Patty/Pooks






Offline Patty Moher

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I was just rereading this report I made 7 years ago! 


http://www.xenu-directory.net/accounts/pieniadz20060302b.html



"I remember only two times that we were sent a survey from Narconon US or from the Guardian's Office asking for some kind of information on the # of NN grads and follow up to see if they are still off drugs, but it was a joke. It was just a bunch of questions with a blank space to write in a number. No request for evidence or back up was to be included."

Offline wynot

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  • wynot
I didn't remember seeing that one before. It seems to match with the experience of so many other ex-members I have met - beginning with the belief that you were doing something great for the world, and having that beautiful sense of purpose destroyed by the realization of what was going on at the higher levels. Thanks for the link!

'til later;
wynot
"When nothing seems to help, I go look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."

Jacob Riis

Offline Mary_McConnell

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If you look at Narconon Arrowhead, Narconon Vista Bay and Narconon SoCal's (Newport  Beach was part of SoCal in 2009) Form 990 (tax return) for the year 2009.

 Arrowhead graduated 531,  Vista Bay 195 and  SoCal  550; SoCal is comprised of several  facilities so lets say 100 graduated at Newport  for a total of  826 graduates.

Vista Bay does say 386 started the program and 195 graduted for a 49.5% failure rate, pretty sad when they advertise 70% or greater when one out of two will not even complete the program.

I am not catching your math on that 826 grads. Can you explain?

I did enjoy your mention of Vista Bay's stats, lol
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline Mary_McConnell

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I took some time to read through the document Narconon International put together and broke it down here:

http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/narconon-proves-their-own-claims-fraudulent/

Thanks so much for that analysis!! I comented at your blog.

The link to the studies mentioned there is ......... lol
http://www.narconon.org/about-narconon/40-years-evidence-recovery.html

Yes, they've apparently got an SP in their ranks.

I see what the problem is, but I'm not going to tell them.  Some things are better left unsaid.

 3((:  But I wanted to see the studies referenced! Oh well, will have to wait...

Thanks Patty.  Welcome!!!!!

How did they falsify the numbers?

How?  I made them all up.  Personally.  I knew the numbers were awful, I knew they wanted to show great results.  Being a Scio I thought oh well, greatest good and all that and so just pulled those numbers right out of my ass. 

Consider this my confession.  I personally fudged all the numbers because I knew it's what they wanted.  There was no study.  I just made them up.

Welcome, Patty! Appreciate your candor on that.

Not sure if you saw this but faking the success rate has become quite a tradition :)


I really want to thank this tipster for providing this information, for speaking up!

The following begins with correspondence I received initially via fwd copy by someone else, asking me to help post the information from former Narconon student and staff member who was involved with Narconon Louisiana aka Narconon Riverbend in Louisiana.

The tipster's words are in italics. I have edited identifying information from the original email, replacing it with non italicized font.

Later on, the tipster replies in Italics, and the questions asked are in non italicized font.
[..]
4) From your own observations, what do you think the actual average success rate is at NN Riverbend? Here is David Love's estimation, from his experience at NN Canada as the Graduate Officer. http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/narconon-montreal-quebec-c382612.html  Is this a comparable example of how it's calculated at Riverbend?

The Success Rate. I'm not sure how other centers do it, but here is how dishonest we were. I did this and its bad. Jeff Lucas, Cathy Steiner and I at one point had a list of all the graduates and we went through and marked off all the people we knew had either reverted to drugs, had become very antagonistic and were probably reverted and just were so angry with us that they wouldn't say how they were doing. Then, we would give an edited list to the "Success Officer" at that time to make the calls... Then, there you go 80% success rate. A scam, just like everything else.

When you leave a business in the hands of drug addicts, where people are handing you $30k a pop for their loved ones safety,  it gets ran like the "drug game." The mind set is, do what you have to, to make $. Who better to have run your criminal business then highly trained criminals with the highest IQs.

The success rate does not include people who will not answer the phone, people that we did not want to call. The success rate is totally made up. I can personally account for that. I made it up. We made it up. Its a total lie. It only included people who still would communicate with us and the"20%" that we considered were using were the ones we felt pity for and kept bringing back. Its the BIGGEST LIE and I will tell this to anyone that will listen! Thats how they lure people in!!
[..]
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline Mary_McConnell

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I took some time to read through the document Narconon International put together and broke it down here:

http://www.haveyoutoldall.com/narconon-proves-their-own-claims-fraudulent/

Tony Ortega just wrote about Clark Carr's video about the booklet and Patty Moher's comment here on making up the study result figures. He's awaiting hear back from Clark Carr. I made a point to comment about your important article on their proving their own success rate claims are fraudulent :)
http://tonyortega.org/2013/05/27/scientologys-drug-rehab-network-goes-on-the-offensive/

My comment can be found here:
http://tonyortega.org/2013/05/27/scientologys-drug-rehab-network-goes-on-the-offensive/#comment-909784305
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline mefree

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Nice of Tony O to mention Tipping Point.
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Mary_McConnell

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Nice of Tony O to mention Tipping Point.

Yes, that was. Too bad there is no hyperlink to it. Oh well, we take what we can when we get it! LOL
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline Sunshine

  • Merchant of Chaos
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Question from  Mary: I am not catching your math on that 826 grads. Can you explain?



The β€œ2009 ABLE Report: Outcome Monitoring of Narconon Graduates Results (NN Arrowhead, NN Newport Beach, NN Vista Bay)” states the sample size was 275 graduates from the three the facilities.

My point is out of 726 documented graduates (Arrowhead 531, Vista Bay 195) and a guesstimate of 100 from SoCal , the sample size for the TOTAL documented graduates  is only 37.7% and 31.4% when including the guesstimate graduates.

So their conclusion is based on 37.7% of the TOTAL graduates. I  wanted to provide the documented (Form 990) number of graduates for 2009 and  point out their sample size is less than 40% of the total graduates and their disclaimer β€œThe percentages stated below are often of those persons interviewed, those who could be reached.” indicates  their success rate is less than 37.7%.

Does Narconon Arrowhead treat individuals under the age of 18?

Offline mefree

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Love the new wording insurance companies. "We have billed the following insurance providers."  ;)



http://bit.ly/13ibJyV
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Mary_McConnell

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^^^^

That's funny!!
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline BigBeard

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Sounds like time for a 'Truth in Advertising' complaint. narCONon may have "billed" those insurance companies, but the real question is did those insurance companies actually pay for the services billed to them??

It makes a difference to the ad if the answer is, "No!".
BigBeard

Offline ethercat

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Sounds like time for a 'Truth in Advertising' complaint. narCONon may have "billed" those insurance companies, but the real question is did those insurance companies actually pay for the services billed to them??

It makes a difference to the ad if the answer is, "No!".

Or did the insurance pay and then Narconon told the families they didn't? 

This just occurred to me too: If Narconon gets double pay (from insurance and from the family, since that has happened), does the FSM (referrer) get commission on both payments?

LOL!  Nice of them to give the insurance fraud investigators a list of the companies to contact.   :D

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