Author Topic: Progress in the Netherlands: Narconon on close supervision  (Read 6386 times)

Offline ethercat

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Re: Progress in the Netherlands: Narconon on close supervision
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2013, 18:06 »
Just a part of the comments section from Jonny's blog:
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Jens TINGLEFF ->  joclusjo  • 2 days ago
Hi Joanna,

You could simply point to your published accounts concerning the fees - that would be much more simple. You might want to to find out what my information is, I invite you to read and understand "Have You Told All?: Inside My Time with Narconon and Scientology" by Lucas Catton. It has lots of information about how narCONon is run in the United States, and that will explain why I ask questions the way I do.

 
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joclusjo -> Jens TINGLEFF • 2 days ago

hi Jens, in 2011 we received 110.632 on payments for the program. The financial report for 2012 is not ready yet. That should be finished quite soon. Thanks for your invitation, but I am rather busy. I just do appreciate the dialogie that is ongoing, that is why I am taking time out for that.

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Jens TINGLEFF -> joclusjo • 2 days ago

Thanks for sharing some information. The reason I pointed out the book is that we do have access to more complete information, but only from sources like that. So, if you were interested in our background in this discussion you could find more data in books like that.

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joclusjo -> Jens TINGLEFF • a day ago

okay I am indeed interested in your background. As soon as I have some breathing space after all of this I will look at what Lucas Catton wrote. I dio know one thing though. I have been in Scientology for 40 years and I know from hard won experience that if I do not use it as it should be used or mess around I also find tjhings wrong with it or with the organization. I once took some diet pills. They didn't get the expected result. They were made in a village where I come from. I phoned the up and told them it was a rip off. the man recognized my voice, knew what i was like and said; yes lady if you continue to eat cakes and chocolate with the pills you will not lose weight. The same goes for Scientology. You use it the right way it is great and you use it wrong, you have to find someone to blame, so you blame Scientology. I have been there too, When used correctly it works. That is what I see every day working in Narconon. If I would not see results daily or now and then get a sweet message from a former student wo has been clean for many years, I wold not last very long, believe me. What would be the point?

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Jens TINGLEFF -> joclusjo • 17 hours ago

Well, Lucas Catton was a narconon official for a long time, so he has experiences which are probably much more similar to your experiences than mine are. To me, his book makes sense, but I have not been there myself so I can only make assumptions. If there are errors in it, I am of course interested in hearing about them.

Of course there are students who have been helped by narconon. There is no claim from critics that the purification rundown never has a positive effect.

There are strong claims about the medical risks for people who have less than perfect liver function.

There is also, ahh, confusion caused by the mingling of scientology finances and narconon finances, as in Georgia in the US where the narconon became a donor to the Atlanta "ideal org," and in europe where "Narconon South Europe" has become a "Silver Meritorious" donor to the IAS and so on and so forth.

EDIT: Actually, critics are skeptical about the purification rundown, but grudgingly admit that some narCONon clients do end up successfully quitting illegal drugs.
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Offline jensting

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Re: Progress in the Netherlands: Narconon on close supervision
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2013, 03:58 »
Just a part of the comments section from Jonny's blog:..
Quote
Jens TINGLEFF -> joclusjo • 2 days ago

Thanks for sharing some information. The reason I pointed out the book is that we do have access to more complete information, but only from sources like that. So, if you were interested in our background in this discussion you could find more data in books like that.

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joclusjo -> Jens TINGLEFF • a day ago

okay I am indeed interested in your background. As soon as I have some breathing space after all of this I will look at what Lucas Catton wrote. ...



Yeah, I kind of had hopes for that one, but we're back with the Nazis this morning. LOL
I'm more optimistic about former victims coming forward  I missed the excitement of a former victim with inside knowledge of the death at the facility (or so it appeared to me), but the comment was removed but only after "Bob" had replied.

Offline mefree

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Re: Progress in the Netherlands: Narconon on close supervision
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2013, 06:50 »

Yeah, I kind of had hopes for that one, but we're back with the Nazis this morning. LOL
I'm more optimistic about former victims coming forward  I missed the excitement of a former victim with inside knowledge of the death at the facility (or so it appeared to me), but the comment was removed but only after "Bob" had replied.

You never know. Someone might have taken a peek at Luke's book.
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline ethercat

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Re: Progress in the Netherlands: Narconon on close supervision
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2013, 11:39 »
The 6 months enhanced supervision that started May 24 will be over now, unless it's been extended or some other action taken.  Can we get an update?   :)
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Offline AnonLover

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Offline ethercat

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Re: Progress in the Netherlands: Narconon on close supervision
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2014, 19:08 »
Dutch Update from the comments section of Tony Ortega's blog:
http://tonyortega.org/2014/08/26/more-trouble-for-scientologys-drug-rehab-network-narconon-this-time-in-florida/#comment-1559866654

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scamofscientology • 10 hours ago

Perhaps this is a good moment for a short recap and update of the Dutch Narconon. The Dutch Healthcare inspection started an investigation into the Dutch Narconon in early 2013. The deal they reached with Narconon was that Narconon would operate as a half-way house rather than a drug rehab. With this deal, the Inspection gained at least that Narconon wouldn't put patients with withdrawal symptoms through their dangerous niacin/sauna nonsense. For Narconon, this deal has the advantage that they are no longer regulated by tough quality of healthcare laws. And although there is another set of regulations attached to insurance laws, this is an opt in law. In exchange for not being able to make insurance claims, Narconon opted out. As a result, Narconon Netherlands is now virtually unregulated (I’ll get back to that ‘virtually’ below).

It was a pragmatic move by the Inspection that has been publically criticized by at least one health care professional, a professor in the field of addiction treatment. And he has a point because if Narconon would submit itself to insurance related laws, the Inspection would be forced to intervene because Narconon doesn’t meet the requirements around medical supervision in that particular regulation.

So, who knows, perhaps the Dutch experience has played a part in Narconon now requesting half-way housing licensing elsewhere as well – after all, it likely leads to reduced legal requirements in most places.

Anyways, this is not the end of the story. Naturally, Narconon didn’t upheld its part of the deal. During an unannounced visit a few months later, the Inspection found Narconon to be operating as a full rehab as usual. Surprise, surprise, huh… As a result, they were put under stringent supervision, something that Tony reported on back in June 2013. This stringent supervision was lifted in November 2013 – apparently, the Inspection has placed sufficient faith in Narconon to let them off the leash.

Since then, I have been trying to get ex-patients to publically step forward and confirm a second death in the
facility in 2006 which Narconon has successfully kept away from public scrutiny (alongside one from 2007 which is public knowledge). I’m positive I have enough media connections to get that story out and I am pretty certain it would give the Inspection sufficient cause and motivation to finally shut Narconon down. This has to do with the ‘virtual’ I mentioned earlier. If the Inspection would feel that Narconon is actively endangering the public health, they have the option to get it shut down through an executive order, rather than shutting it down as part
of their own mandate. This happened to another hopelessly unprofessional cult-run rehab in 2012. For now, the Inspection hasn’t chosen that route for Narconon, but I suspect that one more strike means out as far as the Inspection is concerned.

So, Paco… Seth… I really perhaps this post will be the message that reach you. If it does, please considerr speaking out! Narconon has a legal obligation to report the death itself, so any gag agreement you may have signed means nothing... My contact information is on my site (just attach .nl to my username).
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