Author Topic: Sandy Springs zoning opposition  (Read 47567 times)

Offline SocialTransparency

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 1,326
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #80 on: December 15, 2009, 15:32 »
Will the good citizens of Sandy Springs get cAek? or a lump o cOal? ;D

Offline Ultrapoet

  • Joker and Degrader
  • Posts: 114
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #81 on: December 15, 2009, 15:58 »
We shall see.

Offline Stutroup

  • Supressive Person
  • Posts: 436
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #82 on: December 15, 2009, 16:08 »
Again, I'm with you all in heart!  Go go go go go!!

Get it disapproved! :D

Offline Stutroup

  • Supressive Person
  • Posts: 436
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #83 on: December 15, 2009, 21:00 »
I was just notified:  The cult (still) has permission to move in and practice, but they have been denied permission to enclose the basement as a sanctuary.

Offline Ultrapoet

  • Joker and Degrader
  • Posts: 114
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #84 on: December 15, 2009, 23:12 »
I was just notified:  The cult (still) has permission to move in and practice, but they have been denied permission to enclose the basement as a sanctuary.

Sums it up nicely.  They're stuck with three floors and less space than they insist that they need.  So they're still kinda screwed.  We'll see what happens next.

Too many margaritas to detail much more. 

Offline mefree

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 4,369
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #85 on: December 15, 2009, 23:39 »
http://www.ajc.com/news/north-fulton/lawsuit-coming-despite-sandy-242245.html

Lawsuit coming, despite Sandy Springs' OK of Scientology church

By April Hunt

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

8:55 p.m. Tuesday, December 15, 2009

Scientology is coming to Sandy Springs – but a federal lawsuit is coming first.

“Absolutely,” said attorney William Woodson Galloway, when asked if the Church of Scientology will pursue a religious liberty lawsuit following a vote Tuesday that limited the size of the church in Sandy Springs. “We are not happy with the result.”

The result was a 3-3 vote by the City Council on Tuesday night that tried to find a common ground between outright denial of the rezoning of the office building at Roswell Road and Glenridge Drive and agreeing to the church’s request to add a fourth floor to the building.

In the end, the tiebreaking vote went to Mayor Eva Galambos, who supported the staff and Planning Commission middle ground that allowed the church in, but without the additional space.

Council members Dianne Fries, Ashley Jenkins and Rusty Paul also voted in favor, while council members Tibby DeJulio, Doug MacGinnitie and Karen Meinzen McEnerny dissented.

“We can’t make everybody happy,” Galambos said. “We did the best we could with our zoning ordinances and all the recommendations before us.”

That was cold comfort to the standing-room-only crowd that showed up to argue against the rezoning, based on concerns about parking and traffic.

Opposition was massive. More than 700 residents signed petitions against the rezoning, and 16 neighborhood associations formally opposed the move.

More than 200 residents showed up for Tuesday’s meeting, filling City Hall chambers before packing into an adjacent overflow room. Latecomers were stuck standing in the back of the main room.

“This is not a suitable site for increased density and inadequate parking, for any use,” said Jane Kelly of the High Point Civic Association, which represents 500 homeowners.

Galloway said the church disagreed that the problems existed but offered concessions about parking and occupancy anyway, trying to satisfy residents’ concerns.

No other house of worship in the city operates under such resident demands, he said, referring before the vote to the federal Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act.

“RLUIPA indicates you can’t discriminate against churches, yet that is exactly what they are asking you to do,” he said.

City Attorney Wendell Willard said the city cannot respond to a potential challenge to the vote until a lawsuit is filed.

Residents, too, may take legal action. A land-use attorney who consulted with opponents raised the issue Tuesday that even the three-floor church would not have enough on-site parking. Two city attorneys could not definitively address whether that was accurate Tuesday night.

“We are disappointed that the easement issue was not settled satisfactorily,” Kelly said. “Everyone has to consider where we go from here.”

The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline wynot

  • Supressive Person
  • Posts: 422
  • wynot
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #86 on: December 16, 2009, 00:47 »
It seemed that a big sticking point may prove to be whether the easement for parking on the post office property was exclusive, or not, and if it was legitimately grandfathered from before the creation of the city of Sandy Springs and the cult's purchase of the property and demand for a variance. And that discussion was quickly quashed with the call to vote on the granting of the original city staff recommendations for conditions and exceptions on the zoning. I think one member of the council may have realized that the cult is already in violation of the council's variance even before it had been granted!

What I don't understand is why the cult think they have grounds for a lawsuit. The city granted them everything the zoning laws allowed! But all the cult really wants is the additional floor, and they didn't get it!

I think I can say to all the people who put their good efforts into this battle: You won! Yeah, they still own the building, and they can move into it anytime they want (they always could have done so, anyway), but their psychotic need to prove their power over MEST, and force an entire city to allow scientology to ignore community standards, and the desires of the people in that community, has been stymied!

I am in awe.

'til next time;
wynot
"When nothing seems to help, I go look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."

Jacob Riis

Offline Lorelei

  • Hill 10 Situation
  • Posts: 895
  • I can haz ferret.
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #87 on: December 17, 2009, 08:43 »
Can we haz party tiemz nao?
"Once the foundation of a revolution has been laid down, it is almost always
in the next generation that the revolution is accomplished." -- Jean d'Alembert

The Human Wiki.
"I spend hours surfing the web for information, so you don't have to!"

Raven

  • Guest
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #88 on: December 17, 2009, 08:52 »
LOL of course!

Offline ethercat

  • Global Moderator
  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 3,770
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #89 on: January 14, 2010, 17:38 »
I split the lawsuit part into its own thread.
   Narconon Reviews
   Independent Reviews of the Narconon Drug Rehab Programs
   Answers to Frequently Asked But Seldom Answered Questions

Offline SocialTransparency

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 1,326
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2010, 11:08 »
 A tremendous amount of activity is going down @ the Sandy Springs Idle org. Its documentation time kiddies. The game just got XBOX huge.

 What will you do?

Offline SocialTransparency

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 1,326
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #91 on: March 05, 2010, 15:33 »
Splitting scientology,s "Dateline payment" issue into another stand alone thread would be nice. It is something the local community may benefit from. Local vendors and individuals should have all the information available to them when or if they choose to do business with the local so-called church.

Offline mefree

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 4,369
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #92 on: March 05, 2010, 15:56 »
I concur.
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline wynot

  • Supressive Person
  • Posts: 422
  • wynot
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2010, 22:05 »
I think its a good idea too...

later!
wynot
"When nothing seems to help, I go look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before."

Jacob Riis

Offline Lorelei

  • Hill 10 Situation
  • Posts: 895
  • I can haz ferret.
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2010, 03:23 »
Fine by me!
"Once the foundation of a revolution has been laid down, it is almost always
in the next generation that the revolution is accomplished." -- Jean d'Alembert

The Human Wiki.
"I spend hours surfing the web for information, so you don't have to!"

Offline ethercat

  • Global Moderator
  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 3,770
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #95 on: March 08, 2010, 17:26 »
   Narconon Reviews
   Independent Reviews of the Narconon Drug Rehab Programs
   Answers to Frequently Asked But Seldom Answered Questions

Offline Mary_McConnell

  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 2,915
    • Formerly Fooled Finally Free of The Deceptive Cult Called Scientology
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #96 on: November 13, 2010, 23:38 »
ummm.... is this square footage more than what existed when they bought the Atlanta Ideal Org? Or was this what they presumed they could expand to once in? Just  wondering

Square Feet
In Pasadena, a Model for Scientology’s Growth PlanBy FRED A. BERNSTEIN
Published: November 9, 2010

[..] Instructions for the buildings, called “ideal orgs,” are derived from the writings of L. Ron Hubbard, the church’s founder, who died in 1986. According to a Scientology spokesman, Tommy Davis, Mr. Hubbard was “extremely specific” about how the buildings should be laid out. “There’s no interpretation involved,” he said, though he credited David Miscavige, the church’s leader, with driving the project.

Mr. Davis, a second-generation Scientologist, said the buildings, which must be at least 40,000 square feet, cost from $4 million to $20 million each, bringing the price of the current expansion to $500 million. In each case, he said, local parishioners raise money to buy and renovate the buildings.[..]
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/business/10scientology.html?_r=1&src=busln
I am a volunteer advocate for victims of the Narconon scam. I am a former scientologist. I post anonymously. Mary McConnell is my long time nom de plume. Feel free to contact me for assistance in righting the wrongs.

Offline ethercat

  • Global Moderator
  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 3,770
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #97 on: November 14, 2010, 11:55 »
ummm.... is this square footage more than what existed when they bought the Atlanta Ideal Org? Or was this what they presumed they could expand to once in? Just  wondering
...

Mr. Davis, a second-generation Scientologist, said the buildings, which must be at least 40,000 square feet, cost from $4 million to $20 million each, bringing the price of the current expansion to $500 million. In each case, he said, local parishioners raise money to buy and renovate the buildings.[..]
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/business/10scientology.html?_r=1&src=busln

The Atlanta building was about 33,000 square feet (as I recall) when purchased, and adding the basement parking would have brought it to 44,000 +/- a little.  The building was advertised for sale as having the 44,000 sq. ft. because the real estate agent included the underground parking lot as part of the building space, which it was.

However, the original application for the variance/rezoning did not include any plans to enclose the parking area as building interior space.  It included the sanctuary on the first floor, and said that an issue with floor load (75 lbs/sq. ft. existing, 100 lbs/sq. ft. required) would be dealt with, with a sign.  The application was amended later to include enclosing the parking and putting the sanctuary there. 

L. Ron Hubbard said nothing that I've found that mentions any required area or cost - how could he have known in 1986 or before what real estate prices would be 20-25 years later?

Data Series 40 – THE IDEAL ORG
and
http://wiseoldgoat.com/papers-scientology/hubbard_hasi_vs_ias.html#idealorg

Quite simply, Mr. Tommy Davis is lying, once again.  Some "church", huh?

Edit: modified to show the 2 separate links above; they looked like one when I saw them again after posting.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 20:11 by ethercat »
   Narconon Reviews
   Independent Reviews of the Narconon Drug Rehab Programs
   Answers to Frequently Asked But Seldom Answered Questions

Offline Stutroup

  • Supressive Person
  • Posts: 436
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #98 on: November 14, 2010, 19:26 »
L. Ron Hubbard said nothing that I've found that mentions any required area or cost - how could he have known in 1986 or before what real estate prices would be 20-25 years later?

From my understanding, the rumored mandate for the cost or size of an ideal org comes from something leaked about how to choose which building, and how to get people to pay for a building that's not yet purchased.  In the paper/letter/order/whatever, it said that IF a building has not been decided upon, to figure out how much a building of a reasonable style and size in the desired area would cost, and try to raise that amount first.  Nowhere did it say for any org to find a building of a certain square footage or value.  But a lot of people have taken this out of context, trying to imply that CoS dictated a minimum property value or square footage.

Yes: A general description was given for the building.  And yes, this would fall into a certain price category (very expensive).  But there's not a minimum of either mandated.

Also, Hubbard's desire for orgs was Saint Hill sized orgs.  Miscavage initiated the Ideal Orgs program, and has deviated from Hubbard's desire for orgs to be the size of Saint Hill at its peak.

Either way, it's just more reasons to swindle loads of money from members.

Offline ethercat

  • Global Moderator
  • High Value Target
  • Posts: 3,770
Re: Sandy Springs zoning opposition
« Reply #99 on: November 14, 2010, 20:13 »
Just want to clarify...  When I said area above, I meant square footage, not area of town.  My only excuse for not making it clearer the first time is that it was early (before noon).   :D
   Narconon Reviews
   Independent Reviews of the Narconon Drug Rehab Programs
   Answers to Frequently Asked But Seldom Answered Questions