Author Topic: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?  (Read 12740 times)

Offline SocialTransparency

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Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« on: July 18, 2009, 09:10 »
 I would really like to see an in depth account of the financial transactions in regards to the so-called church of scientology of georgia,s fund raising and then purchase procedures on the roswell road property. Something keeps me up @ night about this whole transaction. Why do i sense some type of long term real estate scam? I am not one to pander to conspiratorial thoughts, yet something is wrong here and i can not put my finger on it.

 I am seeing a pattern, nation wide, when it comes to the type of property and amounts of money spent via this group. We are talking about millions upon millions of dollars. Scientology IS NOT a large organization. When large sums of money are spent in these real estate transactions, who is overseeing the legalities of the transaction? Who overseeing these "donations"?

 Is there a possibility that public records exist, that show how C of S of Ga raised said funds for the purchase of the roswell road property? Who the entities were that profited by the transaction? It is my understanding , the roswell road property changed hands 2 times in a 2 day period before C of S of Ga gained title to the property.

5+million dollars was "donated" by a very small group of people to purchase this property. 4.5 years, after the purchase, why hasn't C of S of Ga NOT occupied the building ? Why now? I have a gut feeling something is amiss here. Why, after 4.5 + years has C of S of Ga, utilized other properties as a so-called place of worship?

 Why has C of S of Ga been paying "rent" to lease the dunwoody property, when they have owned the roswell property for many years? The more i think about this whole scenario, the more questions i have.

 Something is wrong here.

Offline Stutroup

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2009, 10:13 »
I've sometimes wondered exactly (some of xD) these things.  I know we do have the list of donors.

I'm not sure how to find the rest though D:

And some things may never be answered ... because things like WHY they kept renting for so long are likely only known to those running the org itself, and their direct superiors.

But I completely agree:  The whole thing reads as some sort of major scam!

Offline Lorelei

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2009, 21:27 »
My gut feeling is that the RTC mother company of the CoS is padding its real estate portfolio in part to give the illusion of this "growth" we keep hearing about, in part to eke more donations out of the true believers, in part to set up shop in more affluent areas in major cities, in part to find properties in areas that restrict protesting or make it logistically difficult (MAYBE), in part to take advantage of the recession and cheap real estate costs (though this does not explain why they bought the SS Idle Org 5 years ago and did not occupy it), etc.

I don't KNOW though, and you are asking questions that a lot of people have asked.
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Offline ethercat

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 20:35 »
I would really like to see an in depth account of the financial transactions in regards to the so-called church of scientology of georgia,s fund raising and then purchase procedures on the roswell road property. Something keeps me up @ night about this whole transaction. Why do i sense some type of long term real estate scam? I am not one to pander to conspiratorial thoughts, yet something is wrong here and i can not put my finger on it.

It doesn't keep me up at night, but I wonder too.  I am also not one prone to conspiracy theories, but I just don't believe that the scientologists are neglectful enough to buy a building that cost $5.6 million, without doing research, inspections, checking whether it adhered to code for their purposes, zoning investigation, i.e., due diligence, first...  unless they had a good reason to buy that specific one.  How could they have thought that it would be enough parking - especially with their goals of expansion?  They could have found a building with ample parking, and just as nice, for the same amount of money (or less). 

That very building had sold just 5 months before, from the bank that had foreclosed on it, to a buyer for $3.4 million, if I remember correctly.  That buyer then sold it that very same day for a million $ in profit.  These are some large jumps in price over just a short period of time.  Surely the scientologists have enough real estate expertise in house to have made a better deal... 

Interestingly too, they bought it in November 2005, according to Fulton County property records, just one month before Sandy Springs would become its own city, split from City of Atlanta.  I don't know if this is related, or just a coincidence.  I also remember Galloway saying they had bought the building in March of 2005, at one of the early meetings, maybe the second one.

Quote
I am seeing a pattern, nation wide, when it comes to the type of property and amounts of money spent via this group. We are talking about millions upon millions of dollars. Scientology IS NOT a large organization. When large sums of money are spent in these real estate transactions, who is overseeing the legalities of the transaction? Who overseeing these "donations"?

Certainly not their members?  They do have at least one member (who donated) who is an accountant.  Wouldn't he be wondering about the wisdom of this transaction?

Quote
Is there a possibility that public records exist, that show how C of S of Ga raised said funds for the purchase of the roswell road property? Who the entities were that profited by the transaction? It is my understanding , the roswell road property changed hands 2 times in a 2 day period before C of S of Ga gained title to the property.

I don't know for sure, but I seem to remember something about 501c3 organizations being required to keep donation and expenditure records, even though they are not required to pay taxes.  Some of them are required to file a tax return, as Ray Hill's site will show: http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/corporate/990s-index.html

Let me look.

From the IRS site: http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i990-ez/ar02.html#d0e117
Quote
A. Who Must File
Filing Tests

Organizations exempt from income tax under Internal Revenue Code section 501(a), which includes sections 501(c), 501(e), 501(f), 501(k), 501(n), and 4947(a)(1) must generally file Form 990 or Form 990-EZ based on their gross receipts for the tax year. (See General Instruction B next for exceptions to the filing requirement.) For this purpose, gross receipts is the organization's total revenues from all sources during its annual accounting period, without subtracting any costs or expenses.

Ah, but then there is this: http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i990-ez/ar02.html#d0e382

Quote
Organizations not required to file Form 990, or Form 990-EZ with the IRS may wish to use it to satisfy state reporting requirements. For details, see General Instruction E .

The following types of organizations exempt from tax under section 501(a) (section 527 for political organizations) do not have to file Form 990, or Form 990-EZ, with the IRS. However, if the organization chooses to file a Form 990 or Form 990-EZ, it must also attach the schedules and statements described in the instructions for these forms. In addition, an organization not required to file Form 990 or 990-EZ because it meets exceptions 12, 15, or 16 must file new Form 990-N, Electronic Notice (e-Postcard) for Tax-Exempt Organizations Not Required to File Form 990 or 990-EZ.

1. A church, an interchurch organization of local units of a church, a convention or association of churches, an integrated auxiliary of a church (such as a men's or women's organization, religious school, mission society, or youth group).
...
5. An exclusively religious activity of any religious order.
...

We know they're a religion in name only, but I bet they get by on these exemptions.

However, Ray's site does have some info from Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization, Inc. (from Form 1023), Church of Scientology International (from Form 1023), and Church of Scientology Western United States (from Form 1023).  I guess we need to find out what this Form 1023 is.

Quote
5+million dollars was "donated" by a very small group of people to purchase this property. 4.5 years, after the purchase, why hasn't C of S of Ga NOT occupied the building ? Why now? I have a gut feeling something is amiss here. Why, after 4.5 + years has C of S of Ga, utilized other properties as a so-called place of worship?

 Why has C of S of Ga been paying "rent" to lease the dunwoody property, when they have owned the roswell property for many years? The more i think about this whole scenario, the more questions i have.

 Something is wrong here.

I agree with you.  Furthermore, they sold the Mt. Vernon Rd. building for $1.2 million, and the money they spent on the new building, even without the 1.2 million from the sale of the old building, could have gone a long way to have done renovations, and had a good bit of money left.

Let me gather some numbers, and I'll get back to this in a couple of days.

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Raven

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 09:35 »
I have a pile of stuff about their purchase.  I'm out of town atm so I can't get it posted from where I am. 
If u want it asap I can make arrangements for you to pick it up. Otherwise I'll be back late Thursday or early Friday

Offline Lorelei

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Offline Stutroup

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 16:49 »
Wow ... it took me a while to convince myself to read the long blog entry, but it was well worth it ... at least in the way of establishing the pattern of widespread huge empty buildings with no purpose but sucking down money for Scientology!

Offline ethercat

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2009, 17:22 »
From the blog:
Quote
LRH never talked about the necessity for huge, fancy buildings.  Quite the opposite. He stressed that Orgs should make do with what they have, and build it up, and purchase larger quarters when they could afford them. He merely insisted that quarters be clean and functional.

And he never, never asked the public to pay for new quarters for the org.  Donations were for services, period. Donations were not for buildings or PR campaigns or legal defense. Never.

The thing is, policy dictates that money put down in advance for services, called "fixed donations," be refunded if the person so desires.  They will make it hard, and some people won't be willing to go to the trouble to get it refunded, but if someone is persistent enough, he will get the refund eventually.

With "building fund" donations, the money is not refundable, it is a true donation, so if the money goes to buildings, it stays in the scn coffers, whereas with money spent on services, it is, more and more, being asked for in refund.

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Offline mefree

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Offline Lorelei

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2009, 02:59 »
Lesson learned: don't donate anything to Scientology! :)
"Once the foundation of a revolution has been laid down, it is almost always
in the next generation that the revolution is accomplished." -- Jean d'Alembert

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Offline ethercat

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2009, 21:21 »
Here is what the Fulton County Tax records show for this building:

PARID: 17 006900010514   
CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY OF GEORGIA INC   5395 ROSWELL RD
Sales
Sale Date   Sale Price   Grantee                                  Grantor
17-NOV-05   $5,600,000   CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY OF                 HAMMOND PROPERTY INVESTORS
06-JUN-05   $4,600,000   HAMMOND PROPERTY INVESTORS               KIRBO PROPERTY SERVICES LLC
06-JUN-05   $3,550,000   KIRBO PROPERTY SERVICES LLC              JPMORGAN CHASE BANK
03-FEB-04   $0           JPMORGAN CHASE BANK                      REALMARK VII LP


Kirbo Property Services LLC bought it from JP Morgan Chase for $3,550,000, and sold it to Hammond Property Investors on the same day for an additional $1,050,000, total of $4,600,000.  That's a nice profit to make in one day, but I'm told this is done sometimes as a method of creative financing for the buyer.  What is interesting to me is that only 5 months later, it was sold to scientology for $5,600,000, an additional million.  At one point in the Sandy Springs meetings, Galloway said the scientologists had purchased the building in March.  Was that a mistake, or a slipup?

Something I find interesting is that Kirbo Property Services, specifically Tom Kirbo, had a listing on loopnet.com, which is still there at http://www.loopnet.com/property/14146750/5395-Roswell-Road/ .  It gives a last verified date of 6/1/2005, which I presume (?) is the date the property was verified by loopnet as a real property.  The date is before the Fulton Co. records show it as being owned by Kirbo Property Services.  At the time, it was called Glenridge Square, and tax records show it as still being owned by JP Morgan Chase.  Was Kirbo so sure he was going to close on the building that he listed it for sale before he purchased it?  Maybe so, if it was a foreclosed property he was buying.

The description in the listing is as follows:

Quote
Price: N/A
Building Size: 32,000 SF
Property Type: Office
Property Sub-type: Office Building
Additional Sub-types: Medical Office
Property Use Type: Any Use
Commission Split: 4%
No. Stories: 4
Tenancy: Single
Year Built: 1984
Parking Ratio: 3.47 / 1,000 SF

Highlights
    * great location
    * Investment opportunity
    * Premium Office Condominiums
    * outstanding opportunity for ownership

Description
PREMIUM OFFICE CONDOMINIUMS. Glenridge Square offers an outstanding opportunity for ownership for the business or medical professional to deliver their client services in a beautiful and convenient setting as well as making a real estate investment. The building features two beautifully appointed elevators for easy access to all floors, professional landscaping, and a dramatic two-story foyer entrance that features a sweeping curved staircase accented by scrolled iron balustrades leading to an open second floor. All common areas feature elegant interior finishes.

Glenridge Square is lcentrally located in metro Atlanta at 5395 Roswell Road, just one mile inside I-285 at the intersection with Glenridge Drive. The attractive Williamsburg-styled construction of the building combined with its highly visible Roswell Road Location, makes this a truly unique investment that offers an owner excellent accessibility, high visibility and a signature location.

When you click on "View additional information for the property" from the link above, and then on "View Historic Sale Listing Last Modified on 05/2005," it shows a different company involved with the sale.  Was this a listing placed by an agent for JP Morgan Chase?  This page contains the following additional information:

Quote
    * Price: N/A
    * Building Size: 43,916 SF
    * Property Type: Office
    * Property Sub-type: Office Building
    * Property Use Type: Vacant/Owner-User
    * No. Stories: 4
    * Building Class: A
    * Year Built: 1984
    * Lot Size: 1.78 AC
    * Parking Ratio: 3.47 / 1,000 SF
    * Last Verified  5/24/2005 Listing ID  13886008

Highlights
    * Excellent Exposure with traffic count of 51,128 CPD
    * Maintains a 25 car underground parking area
    * Dramatic Two Story Foyer with Spival Staircase
    * 2003 median household income is $75,0077
    * High End Extensive interior Finishes
    * Within one mile of Northside and St. Joe Hospitals

Description
Transwestern Commercial Services is pleased to present this opportunity to acquire Glenridge Square - a 43,916 square foot former Coldwell Banker - Buckhead Brokers Residential & Mortgage headquarters in Atlanta.

The Attractive Williamsburg-Style construction of the building combined with its highly visible Roswell Road location, makes this a truly unique investment that offers an owner/user excellent accessibility, high visibility, signature location, in a building that features grand and elegant interior finishes.

Located at the intersection of Roswell Road and Glenridge Drive in the North Fulton County Sandy Springs market, Glenridge Square is just three quarters of a mile south of I-285, Atlanta's circumferential highway and just 1.3 miles from the Georgia 400 highway which provides north/south access to primary residential, office and entertainment.

Glenridge Square is just one mile east of Atlanta's "Pill Hill" an area that contains the city's highest concentration of hospital beds and medical offices.

From these records, we've learned that Tom Kirbo advertised it before his company officially took posession (is this irregular?), that the building has 2 elevators in it (which, I would imagine but am not sure of, have required safety inspections that must be done periodically), that there is a "25 car underground parking area" and unless this is a mistake, not the 30 spaces we have been led to believe exist (will this change things in SS with regard to the parking?), and that an additional corporate entity has been involved in some way with the building, Transwestern Commercial Services, which has C T CORPORATION SYSTEM as its registered agent.  I seem to recall Raven finding CT Corporation System in a scientology-related corporate record, but I don't remember which one, and I could be wrong. CT Corp Services is a very large holding company.

Additional notes:
Realmark VII seems to be doing business under a number of other "Realmark ???" names, including Realmark Rabun: http://atlanta.citywaboo.com/business/2585799/Realmark_Rabun_LLC-in-Atlanta-GA_30342-1976.html
Others can be looked up in the State of Georgia Corporations database.

Kirbo has a website: http://www.kirboproperties.com/

Would anyone else like to dig around for Hammond information?
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Offline Ultrapoet

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2009, 22:39 »
It's possible that Kirbo had the property under contract when he placed the loopnet listing, which is how he was able to buy and sell the place in a double closing.

Offline ethercat

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2009, 21:18 »
I don't know if this is the same sort of thing or not, but it's interesting.  It happened right around the time the 5395 Roswell Rd. purchase was made.  (The text bolding is mine.)

Yellow house rings up lots of green
As condos close in, a devout Scientologist drives a hard bargain, but her church has no hard feelings.
By ROBERT FARLEY
Published December 23, 2005

 CLEARWATER - In this era of "House Sold for Insane Profit" stories, this one stands out.

Sure, the sales price is a zinger. Bought in 1992 for $76,000. Sold last month for $1-million.

But the story of this house sale has unique subplots: a hard-nosed negotiation between Scientologists and a big-time condo development shaking up the neighborhood.

And at the heart of it all is a woman with a deep emotional attachment to a charming place she dubbed The Little Yellow House - a home she hoped to have not just for this lifetime, but for eternity.

"Please capitalize the "T' in "The," Carisa Marion tells a reporter. "It's The Little Yellow House."

On paper - public documents at least - the sale is a head-scratcher.

The lot is 4,320 square feet, about a tenth of an acre. The Little Yellow House has two bedrooms, plus a one-bedroom guest cottage. The county property appraiser set market value at $141,200. Yet the Church of Scientology paid $1-million for it.

To a Scientologist.

That's right, Carisa Marion is a devout Scientologist.

The church wanted the property to one day expand its Sandcastle retreat across the street, where Scientology offers its highest levels of training.

So, did a Scientologist jack up her own church?

Not so fast. The sale has an important footnote: Marion immediately donated $500,000 back to the church, a prepayment for Scientology courses for herself and her two children.

More at http://www.sptimes.com/2005/12/23/Northpinellas/Yellow_house_rings_up.shtml
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Offline mefree

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2009, 22:58 »
So, she was pressured to sell a house she loved:

Quote
None of that pressure existed when Carisa Marion came across the little house in the early 1990s. She and her then-husband were on another of their visits from Atlanta to Scientology seminars at the Fort Harrison Hotel in Clearwater. It stood out, she said, from the neighborhoods of character-less, concrete block ranch homes in Clearwater. The yellow house at 301 N Osceola Ave. was a classic 1930s Key West style bungalow, with hardwood floors and crown moldings. Marion instantly fell in love and bought it. The following year, Marion and her husband moved to Clearwater, and into The Little Yellow House. Several years later, they moved to the tony Harbor Oaks neighborhood in Clearwater, but kept the old house as a rental. When Marion and her husband divorced, she moved back into it.

Match made in heaven?

Quote
Then in 1997, Marion and her boyfriend, a dog chiropractor, moved to Northern California.
Marion is a "last life clear" Scientologist. That means she believes that in a previous life she was a Scientologist who attained Scientology's state of clear, at which one can "confront anything and everything in the past, present and future."

And she originally had no plans to sell:

Quote
Meanwhile, just across the street, the Church of Scientology built a major addition to its Sandcastle retreat. Then, it bought and renovated the Osceola Inn, just one block from The Little Yellow House, and turned it into an upscale hotel for visiting Scientologists.

From California, Marion rented her house for $1,500 per month to Scientologists from around the world who stayed in Clearwater for months at a time to work on the high levels of training at the Sandcastle.

Immediately to the north, private sector developers moved in and soon drew a bead on The Little Yellow House.
Real estate speculator Gerald Ellenburg, also a Scientologist, approached Marion about buying her property. He had huge plans: Condos towers.

Marion, 44, had intended never to sell, especially because her yellow house is across the street from the Sandcastle. "The church will be there for eternity," she said. "And I would've been across the street for eternity, too. My family will always be Scientologists."

Maybe forced is a better word than pressured:

Quote
After much pleading by Ellenburg's representatives, she finally relented when she saw the plans. "I was where the tennis courts were going to be," she said. Her price, $399,000. But Ellenburg's plans fell apart, and the house came back to Marion.

"It was traumatic," she said.

Two years ago, another development group headed by Scientologists approacher her with yet another major condo plan. This time, Marion was adamant.

"Please just accept my no, and believe me, it's a no. Please just go around me."

Triangle Development Co.'s Ben Kugler remembers flying to California and spending three hours in Marion's kitchen making a personal pitch. Triangle's property surrounded hers on three sides. The company plans two 15-story condo towers overlooking Clearwater Harbor to the west and upscale retail shops along Fort Harrison Avenue to the east. Triangle will build 325 condo units in all, many of which it expects to sell to Clearwater's growing community of Scientologists.

Marion supported the plan, but refused to sell.

"She had a personal attachment to it like you wouldn't believe," Kugler said.

Then last year, the Church of Scientology bought a piece of Triangle's land immediately south of Marion's home as a site to expand Sandcastle operations.

"They needed it," Kugler said. "If it was anyone else, we would probably not have done it."

Triangle sold its vacant property for a little more than $1.2-million.

"They didn't pay any more than it cost us," Kugler said. "It's my church. I'm not going to make a profit off them."

That's the difference, he said, between Triangle's sale to the church and Marion's.

For a moment, I thought she's not entirely stupid:

Quote
Marion contacted a commercial appraiser who told her she held the key piece. The church needed it to put together a half-acre so it could build a 50,000- to 60,000-square-foot building.

When she set her price, Marion said, she simply came up with a number she could live with.

Clearwater real estate developer Lee Arnold, who has proposed his own plan for two condo/hotel towers just a block away, said Marion's $1-million price tag doesn't floor him.

Institutions like churches often pay top dollar for abutting land, he said. And prices for downtown Clearwater real estate are skyrocketing. Earlier this month, the Church of Scientology paid the county $530,000 for a a quarter-acre near the Police Department. The church already owns the rest of the block.

Then, she did this:

Quote
Besides, there was the $500,000 donation Marion made to the church: $300,000 for herself; and $100,000 each for her two children, ages 18 and 24.

"I bought a lot of sessions to cover me for the rest of my life," Marion said.

Marion now wants to take Scientology's OT level courses, the church's highest, and most expensive, training. The $300,000 will allow her to complete that training, she said.

"That was the biggest win for me," she said.

After taxes, sales fees and contributions to the church, Marion estimates she netted about $310,000 on her yellow house.

"I knew I was not ripping them off," she said.

The church has no hard feelings, a spokesman said.

"She drove a hard bargain," said Scientology's Ben Shaw. "When you're talking business, you hope a parishioner will help us to some degree, but it's a matter of business. She was in a position where there was a lot of development going on around her. I think we got a fair exchange out of it."
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Offline ethercat

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2009, 18:36 »
These Danish articles may shed some light on the Ideal Org scam going on, maybe not.  It's worth being aware of, in any case.

Visit the links for photos and links to other articles in the same series, but here are a couple of google translations.  If you visit the other links from the translated page, it will keep translating as long as you're still in the google translation frame.  (language is a little stilted, being a machine translation.)

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fekstrabladet.dk%2Fnyheder%2Fsamfund%2Farticle1191107.ece&sl=da&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Quote
Scientologists breaking the law

Suspect sect: It looks great when enterprising members donate millions of dollars to Scientology - but they also lend money illegally

23:01 - 07. 23:01 - 07 jul. July 2009 | Sverre Quist , John Mynderup 2009 | Sverre Quist, John Mynderup

In Scientology's headquarters in Copenhagen is the late founder L. Ron Hubbard's office know if he should return from the dead. This is Hubbard's management techniques, which underlies the Scientologists' business practices. Methods in the real world is quite dubious. (Photo: Peter Hove Olesen)

'If you take advantage of the techniques and advice, as the creator of the Scientology religion, L. Ron Hubbard has created, we can help you become more successful in life and in your business! "

The controversial Church of Scientology is not in doubt. The long dead founder Hubbard's theories on leadership and management is so obvious right and good that it can lead to nothing but happiness and prosperity.

Ekstra Bladet has reviewed 50 companies owned and run by Scientologists.  Up to half of them contain either illegal loans, are forced dissolved and bankrupt or in serious economic difficulties.

We are in possession of a secret list of contributors to the purchase and renovation of Scientology's new Danish headquarters on Nytorv 11, Copenhagen.  It's called Honor List and includes the names of nearly 500 people who have given from one million to a few thousand dollars. In total around 35 million dollars.

On the list are a large number of enterprising Scientologists who operate their own businesses. There are among these, we have examined 50 companies. And in 12 companies Scientologists have illegally taken money in their companies and sent them to Scientology organizations.

Large illegal loans
One of the companies with the largest illegal loans are C / S System ApS where Scientologist Allan Steffensen director. Of the latest accounts show that has made an illegal loan of 672,601 DKK And it is even uncertain whether the money ever be repaid, the auditor writes in his reservations.

Whether the money has ended up with Allan Steffensen is not the auditor. But the other striking employees of the company are all Scientologists. Among other things, Kim Fogel Power, who sits on the lines for both purchasing, sales and finance. Kim Fogel Power has with his wife granted DKK 600,000 to get high on Scientology's honorary list.

Despite several requests failed to get C & S Systems to participate in this article.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fekstrabladet.dk%2Fnyheder%2Fsamfund%2Farticle1191107.ece&sl=da&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Quote
Cynical thinking

15:45 - 07. 15:45 - 07 jul. July 2009 | Sverre Quist , John Mynderup 2009 | Sverre Quist, John Mynderup

Expert in Scientology Tom Thygesen Daugaard is not surprised that Scientology corporations in a row breaking the law.

- Ethics is in Scientology, whether production statistics suggest the right way. So if an action increases the Scientology profit, it is a good offense. In this way, Scientology is very pragmatic in the direction of the cynical, says Cand.theol. Tom Thygesen Daugaard, which since 1998 has worked at the Dialog Center.

And explains why companies can run into the ground, even with L. Ron Hubbard's infallible methods are also Scientologists straightforward in their heads.

- If a company is running poorly after Scientology principles, is very simple. So, the management of the company did not understand L. Ron Hubbard's management techniques. For methods, according to Scientology doctrine infallible.
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Offline SocialTransparency

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2012, 17:29 »
 Time to wake this thread up.

 Lets start.

 

 Kirbo Property Services LLC BUYS the discussed property for $3.5 Million on June 6TH 2005 THEN SELLS  property discussed in this thread to Hammond Property Investors on the same day JUNE 6TH 2005 for $4.6 million dollars.


- $1 Million in profit for Kirbo Property ServicesLLC on a same day transaction between Hammond Property Investors and Kirbo Property Services LLC. 

- $1 Million in profit for Hammond Property Investors less than 6 months later for transactions on same property between Hammond Property Investors and the Church of Scientology of Georgia in the sale of discussed property to Church of Scientology of Georgia for $5.6 Million dollars.

 Hammond Property Investors still holds a Georgia business license.
http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/SearchResults.asp?FormName=CorpNameSearch&Words=Starting&SearchStr=hammond+property+investors&SearchType=Search




 Agent for Hammond Property Investors is Mark.E Robinson

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mark-e-robinson/15/a7/a28

http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/Agent.asp?2699918

http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/SearchResults.asp?FormName=CorpNameSearch&Words=Starting&SearchStr=robinson+and+associates+llc&SearchType=Search

 

 I wonder if Kirbo Property Services LLC and/or Hammond Property Investors on JUNE 6TH 2005 had prior knowledge of the discussed properties future sale to the Church of Scientology of Georgia in/on or around November of 2005?

 I see a $2 Million dollar incentive, But still does no explain the reasoning behind Scientology of Georgia paying $2 Million dollars over fair market price for the property discussed.

 $2 Million!
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 23:15 by SocialTransparency »

Offline BigBeard

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2012, 22:24 »
What I find fishy about these property buys is the way it gets turned over to RTC after the purchase, then the locals have to pay rent to RTC to use it. You'd think after the unrelenting regging of the locals to raise the money, once they had the property it would be theirs, not RTCs.

But that's not the way it works. So RTC ends up with a building it didn't pay for, and keeps draining the pockets of the suckers to boot. And RTC probably gets a nice tax write off, or insurance pay out, if the building sits empty and rots when the locals run out of money.
BigBeard

Offline ethercat

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2012, 22:56 »
And RTC probably gets a nice tax write off, or insurance pay out, if the building sits empty and rots when the locals run out of money.

Which is exactly what's happening while the Sandy Springs Ideal Org is going through the RLUIPA process: http://forum.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/index.php/topic,6449.0.html

Don't miss the photo of the squirrel coming out of the roof vent in that thread!   <--:D-->

Have you ever seen anything definitive about the orgs having to pay rent to RTC?  I've only heard rumors of that, but I don't get out and about much.   ;)
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Offline SocialTransparency

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2012, 23:54 »
Time to wake this thread up.

 Lets start.


 Kirbo Property Services LLC BUYS the discussed property for $3.5 Million on June 6TH 2005 THEN SELLS  property discussed in this thread to Hammond Property Investors on the same day JUNE 6TH 2005 for $4.6 million dollars.


- $1 Million in profit for Kirbo Property ServicesLLC on a same day transaction between Hammond Property Investors and Kirbo Property Services LLC. 

- $1 Million in profit for Hammond Property Investors less than 6 months later for transactions on same property between Hammond Property Investors and the Church of Scientology of Georgia in the sale of discussed property to Church of Scientology of Georgia for $5.6 Million dollars.

 Hammond Property Investors still holds a Georgia business license.
http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/SearchResults.asp?FormName=CorpNameSearch&Words=Starting&SearchStr=hammond+property+investors&SearchType=Search


 Agent for Hammond Property Investors is Mark.E Robinson

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mark-e-robinson/15/a7/a28

http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/Agent.asp?2699918

http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/SearchResults.asp?FormName=CorpNameSearch&Words=Starting&SearchStr=robinson+and+associates+llc&SearchType=Search

 

 I wonder if Kirbo Property Services LLC and/or Hammond Property Investors on JUNE 6TH 2005 had prior knowledge of the discussed properties future sale to the Church of Scientology of Georgia in/on or around November of 2005?

 I see a $2 Million dollar incentive, But still does no explain the reasoning behind Scientology of Georgia paying $2 Million dollars over fair market price for the property discussed.

 $2 Million!

 
Quote
Well. It may be possible that Hammond Property Investors LLC could very well have had prior information via

Kevin L Engel is shown as one of the organizers/managers of Hammond in it's original filing in 2003.
http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/Filings.asp?210625#

http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/corporate/person.php?person_id=2388

Ain't it cool! /////__ |v^| But what the heck do I know! They are just personal theories I have on this and many more subjects. >:D J-:B ^^or__


 I wonder if the city of Sandy Springs Georgia is aware of the relationship between Kevin L.Engel organizer of Hammond Property Investors,The Church of Scientology of Georgia and Kirbo Property Services LLC on JUNE 6TH 2005.

 Could it be that from DAY ONE financial and or criminal impropriates may have occurred that aided in some fashion the church of Scientology of Georgia and its agents both financially and informationally concerning the eventual purchase of the Roswell RD. Sandy Springs Ideal Org property.

 Could these possible actions have any impact on the current RILUPA case filed by the church of Scientology of Georgia against the city of Sandy Springs Georgia,its mayor and city council members?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 09:42 by SocialTransparency »

Offline ethercat

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Re: Real estate scam?Improper donation procedures?
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2012, 00:36 »
Agent for Hammond Property Investors is Mark.E Robinson

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mark-e-robinson/15/a7/a28

http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/Agent.asp?2699918

http://corp.sos.state.ga.us/corp/soskb/SearchResults.asp?FormName=CorpNameSearch&Words=Starting&SearchStr=robinson+and+associates+llc&SearchType=Search

And: http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/corporate/person.php?person_id=2387
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/m/mark-edwin-robinson.html
Mark Robinson   RECENT CLEARS:   Auditor 262   1996-11-01
Mark Edwin Robinson   Honor Roll of the IAS   Impact 102   2002-12-01
Mark Edwin Robinson   Patrons   Impact 114   2006-09-01
Mark Robinson   Auditor 261
Mark Robinson   Auditor 262

http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/corporate/entity.php?ntt=1576
And the other organizer of Hammond?  C. Bruce Capps?

http://www.city-data.com/fulton-county/K/Kingston-Drive-2.html

http://www.zoominfo.com/#!search/profile/person?personId=521978463&targetid=profile

http://www.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=991281185&page_url=//www.emconsultingonline.com/index.php?page=3&site=1&page_last_updated=2007-06-02T04:39:03&firstName=Bruce&lastName=Capps
Quote
Kevin L. Engle, Chief Executive Officer

Kevin Engle is the co-founder of Engle Martin & Associates, Inc. and an Executive General Adjuster (EGA). Specializing in Property, Business Interruption, Property Damage and Product Liability, Mr. Engle has over 16 years experience with some of the more prominent names in the industry, including Aetna Casualty & Surety and McLarens Toplis North America. A graduate of the University of Georgia, Mr. Engle also earned the Chartered Property Casualty Underwriter (CPCU), Associate in Claims (AIC), and Associate in Risk Management (ARM) designations. Mr. Engle is actively involved with the CPCU Society and the Loss Executives Association (LEA) in addition to having served as Assistant Secretary/Treasurer of the Southern Loss Association and maintains membership in the Atlanta Claims Association.

http://www.spoke.com/info/p6JXeqy/BruceCapps
Quote
C. Bruce Capps, MBA
Bruce Capps is a Principal of Engle Martin & Associates, Inc. who specializes in General Liability, Transit Liability, Large Loss Negotiation and Litigation Management.He has over 29 years experience in insurance claims adjusting and management.A graduate of Carleton University, Mr. Capps earned his MBA from Georgia State University.

http://www.bizapedia.com/ga/CHASTAIN-GROUP-INC.html

http://www.bizapedia.com/ga/TS-PARTNERS-LLC.html

Well, that ought to get you back into your chair...  More where that came from:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=%22C.+Bruce+Capps%22&oq=%22C.+Bruce+Capps%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_nf=1&gs_l=serp.3...12112.12666.0.13048.3.3.0.0.0.0.64.153.3.3.0.hiavMdelO7k

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