Author Topic: Scientology believes "the psychs" are behind its opposition (us)  (Read 3278 times)

Offline ethercat

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It's become a joke amongst protestors that they are "paid by the psychs," since that's what scientology tells their members when they see or hear about people protesting.  It's not just an excuse, though, it reveals the bias against psychiatry which was planted in their minds by Hubbard and his writings.  One would think, however, they would try to keep their conspiracy theories to themselves, but no, you can see it in all its glory on their very own site: http://opposing.scientology.org/31-behnd.htm

Small quote for fair use:
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What happened was fairly predictable: attacks against Scientology by government agencies in England, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Australia-all with fervent media support involving the most outrageous allegations. Still, as usual, in every instance, Scientology prevailed.

So it goes. Key psychiatric figures, their US government allies and psychiatric colleagues overseas-together they have spent untold millions of dollars around the world to stop Scientology.

And they never have.

Oh, yes, we will.  And we'll do it without the "psychs" if we have to.  I like the way scientology is "prevailing" with the St. Petersburg Times.  :D 

Does anyone remember any of the other humorous excuses scientology has come up with to justify why people are against them?

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Offline Lorelei

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Well, there's the "Marcabian Invaders" story. That's a good one.
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Offline ethercat

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Please tell us about that one, I don't remember hearing it. 
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Offline Peter Schilte

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I remember that last year an Australian cult representative stated that people were paid 50 dollars to participate in protests against the cult. As usual, there was not a spark of evidence to support their claim.
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Offline Alp

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Please tell us about that one, I don't remember hearing it.

It was some post on ARS around the beginning of 2008 that declared Anonymous was the "4th or 5th Marcabian Invasion Fleet."
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Offline Lorelei

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Alp got it right.

Apparently, though this is unsubstantiated gossip AFAIK, the upper level cultists who made it through OT3 and Xenu and didn't immediately GTFO were told that Anonymous protesters were really Marcabians, and that this was validation of the details in one of Elron's drug-addled rants. You know the kind; like the ones about The Obscene Dog, or "Wassa Matta Wit You, Hat?", or How I Got Run Over By A Train On Venus.
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Offline mefree

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I am convinced this paranoia about psychs is rooted in Elron's mental illness and beliefs about psychiatry after he either could not find/afford or rejected psychiatric treatment.

Why is it that the mentally ill are frequently charismatic?

It amazes me that he was able to convince his blind followers about the "evil psychs." But then there is the indoctrination and brainwashing.......
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Offline ethercat

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I am convinced this paranoia about psychs is rooted in Elron's mental illness and beliefs about psychiatry after he either could not find/afford or rejected psychiatric treatment.

Was Hubbard mentally ill to start with, or just selfish and evil? 

Did he start out not being mentally ill but just evil, and then became mentally ill as he drank and drugged himself into believing his own lies? 

Or was he never mentally ill until the very end, but secretly fraught with guilt from the people he had hurt, and continues hurting to this day?

Certainly, toward the end, he was mentally ill, screaming about body thetans infesting his body, letting himself go, with 3" fingernails and rotten teeth, but there was some period in which he thought clearly enough to devise this elaborate scam. 

There is a school of thought that Hubbard was not intelligent enough to have devised scientology by himself, and that he had help, or people pulling his strings without him realizing, but I haven't seen enough evidence of that theory to believe it myself, at least yet.

The early scientology training has been likened to, and is said to be by some, a form of hypnosis, something most psychs are at least a little familiar with.  If his followers were to see a psych, the psych might recognize the effects of hypnosis and/or mental influence and tip them off before they were fully under the spell. 

Also, psychs are competitors - licensed and educated competitors, but competitors nonetheless.  And state-sanctioned ones at that!

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Why is it that the mentally ill are frequently charismatic?

Are the mentally ill able to conjure up a charismatic personality, or are the naturally charismatic prone to become mentally ill?  Or do both qualities somehow spring from the same physiological makeup?

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It amazes me that he was able to convince his blind followers about the "evil psychs." But then there is the indoctrination and brainwashing.......

He had to convince them of that; if he hadn't, the problems that scientologists develop after following the "tech" would have driven them into the hands of the mental health professionals.  What's so unfortunate is that even for years after leaving scientology, sometimes the aversion to psychologists lingers on, and prevents some badly affected once-followers from getting care that could help them fully regain their lives.

And if he could convince them of the space opera after enough mental processing, what else couldn't he convince them of?
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Offline mefree

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LRH might have had a schizophrenic break as a young adult. Who knows?

There is much evidence of his mental illness, specifically paranoid schizophrenia in FBI files, his personal letter requesting help for his mental illness, reports from wives, etc:

http://www.xenu.net/archive/FBI/
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002374.html
http://www.lermanet2.com/tomgorman/policy_analysis.htm
http://www.lermanet2.com/shannon/48.htm
http://www.ronthenut.org/beg.htm
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0624051hubbard1.html
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0624051hubbard2.html

The topic of psychopathic cult leaders and the role of charisma is nicely covered in this excerpt from the book "Captive Hearts, Captive Minds" by Madeleine Landau Tobias and Janja Lalich.

http://www.anandainfo.com/cult_leaders.html

These are just a few quotes from the excerpt. The entire excerpt and the book itself are surely worth a good read:

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Cult leaders have an outstanding ability to charm and win over followers. They beguile and seduce. They enter a room and garner all the attention. They command the utmost respect and obedience. These are "individuals whose narcissism is so extreme and grandiose that they exist in a kind of splendid isolation in which the creation of the grandiose self takes precedence over legal, moral or interpersonal commitments."
Paranoia may be evident in simple or elaborate delusions of persecution. Highly suspicious, they may feel conspired against, spied upon or cheated, or maligned by a person, group, or governmental agency. Any real or suspected unfavorable reaction may be interpreted as a deliberate attack upon them or the group. (Considering the criminal nature of some groups and the antisocial behavior of others, some of these fears may have more of a basis in reality than delusion!)

This is particularly heartbreaking to me. It must be devastating to wake up to this:

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People coming out of a cultic group or relationship often struggle with the question, "Why would anyone (my leader, my lover, my teacher) do this to me?" When the deception and exploitation become clear, the enormous unfairness of the victimization and abuse can be very difficult to accept. Those who have been part of such a nightmare often have difficulty placing the blame where it belongs--on the leader.

A cult cannot be truly explored or understood without understanding its leader. A cult's formation,
proselytizing methods, and means of control "are determined by certain salient personality characteristics of [the] cult leader....Such individuals are authoritarian personalities who attempt to compensate for their deep, intense feelings of inferiority, insecurity, and hostility by forming cultic groups primarily to attract those whom they can psychologically coerce into and keep in a passive-submissive state, and secondarily to use them to increase their income."

In cults and abusive relationships, those in a subordinate position usually come to accept the abuse as their fault, believing that they deserve the foul treatment or that it is for their own good. They sometimes persist in believing that they are bad rather than considering that the person upon whom they are so dependent is cruel, untrustworthy, and unreliable. It is simply too frightening for them to do that: it threatens the balance of power and means risking total rejection, loss, and perhaps even death of self or loved ones.
This explains why an abused cult follower may become disenchanted with the relationship or the group yet continue to believe in the teachings, goodness, and power of the leader.

Even after leaving the group or relationship, many former devotees carry a burden of guilt and shame while they continue to regard their former leader as paternal, all-good, and godlike. This is quite common in those who "walk away" from their groups, especially if they never seek the benefits of an exit counseling or therapy to deal with cult-related issues. This same phenomenon is found in battered women and in children who are abused by their parents or other adults they admire.

The role of charisma:

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In the case of cults, of course, we know that this induction of whole hearted devotion does not happen spontaneously but is the result of the cult leader's skillful use of thought-reform techniques. Charisma on its own is not evil and does not necessarily breed a cult leader. Charisma is, however, a powerful and awesome attribute found in many cult leaders who use it in ways that are both self-serving and destructive to others. The combination of charisma and psychopathy is a lethal mixture--perhaps it is the very recipe used at the Cookie-cutter Messiah School!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 10:11 by mefree »
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Offline wynot

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Mefree, thanks for the excerpts. Tobias and Lalich make several interesting points just in these few paragraphs, and I think this will be an important read. But one sentence bothers me: "Such individuals are authoritarian personalities who attempt to compensate for their deep, intense feelings of inferiority, insecurity, and hostility by forming cultic groups primarily to attract those whom they can psychologically coerce into and keep in a passive-submissive state, and secondarily to use them to increase their income." (italics and underlining mine).

My problem is the characterization of these individuals as feeling inferior. I believe the exact opposite is true - people like Hubbard, Manson, Hitler, or the average criminal, actually believe themselves superior, in fact far superior, to the average person. Looked at with that understanding, the evil these people do becomes much more easily explained - "If God did not want them sheared, he would not have made them sheep!" ya` know... The highest self-esteem measurements experimenters have recorded were from violent inmates in Federal prisons. And I am certain this sense of superiority is fully shared by David Miscavage and other leaders of Scientology!

I am not smart enough to understand how this change in a theory about the cult-leader personality can effect our efforts to ameliorate the harm done by these individuals, but I get a little warning buzz in the back of my brain when I see what I perceive to be an error in our base thinking about cult leaders. As Chairman Mao (yes, I know, another cult leader ;)) said, we must "Seek truth from facts."

'til next time;
wynot
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Offline mefree

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Ironically, I think there is a lot of truth in that underlined statement along with your statement as well.

I believe that both can be true. That one can be an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. This type of personality might attempt character assassination of another person to build themselves up or prop up their illusion of superiority. 

IANAP but I believe the thinking on this is perhaps that due to childhood neglect or abuse a narcissitic personality disorder might develop.
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder


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Theories on narcissistic personality disorder and shame

It has been suggested that narcissistic personality disorder may be related to defenses against shame.[14]

Gabbard suggested NPD could be broken down into two subtypes.[15] He saw the "oblivious" subtype as being grandiose, arrogant and thick skinned and the "hypervigilant" subtype as easily hurt, oversensitive and ashamed.

He suggested that the oblivious subtype presents a large, powerful, grandiose self to be admired, envied and appreciated. This self is the antithesis of the weakened and internalized self that hides in a generic state of shame. This is how the internalized self fends off devaluation, while the hypervigilant subtype neutralizes devaluation by seeing others as unjust abusers. This hypervigilant type does not fend off devaluation; he is obsessed with it.

Jeffrey Young, who coined the term "Schema Therapy", a technique originally developed by Aaron T. Beck (1979), also links shame to NPD. He sees the so-called Defectiveness Schema as a core schema of NPD, next to the Emotional Deprivation and Entitlement Schemas.[16] All Schemas may incorporate maladaptive coping styles, for example, the defectiveness schema may include:

    * Surrender: Chooses critical partners and significant others; puts him- or herself down.
    * Avoidance: Avoids sharing "shameful" thoughts and feelings with partners and significant others due to fear of rejection.
    * Overcompensation: Behaves in a critical or superior way toward others; tries to come across as perfect.
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Offline Lorelei

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FWIW, I also recommend CHCM by Tobias / Lalich. It is very insightful.
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Offline 88 Champion Edition Turbo

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Re: Scientology believes "the psychs" are behind its opposition (us)
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2009, 04:06 »
This is just based on personal experience with schizophrenics, and I'm no way an expert, but even without all the evidence, I'd almost put serius moniecash on Hubbard being a schizo. He shows all the signs in his writing alone.

...though a lot of schizophrenics are a hell of a lot more creative.

For the record, this amused me:
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Still, as usual, in every instance, Scientology prevailed.

Oh Scientology... you're truly logic and critical analytics' black knight. No, I mean the one from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 04:15 by 88 Champion Edition Turbo »
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