Author Topic: Narconon NO REFUND POLICY  (Read 7198 times)

Offline VONSTEPHANSON III

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Narconon NO REFUND POLICY
« on: January 23, 2011, 11:23 »
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« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 15:43 by VONSTEPHANSON III »

Offline mefree

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Re: Narconon NO REFUND POLICY
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2011, 11:55 »
The cult has a fundamental problem that I believe will be their undoing. Honesty is not a core principle of CoS. In fact, lying is condoned. Continuously, they operate in a deceptive fashion with those they purport to help.

In this case, the primary goal was to get the "student" to Narconon and collect payment. The rest is not really important to them. Money and recruitment appear to be the primary targets.

Despite the evidence that tells them otherwise, (constantly relapsing staff members, real Narconon relapse statistics, number of students who become ill on the sauna/vitamin regimen, sent to ER, hospitalized or dead) Narconon continues to operate blindly with a junk science approach to detox as if it was the gold standard.

Your situation is just one more in which they are acting deceptively with a vulnerable addict and family. This goes on every day across the country.

I can certainly understand why anyone would want to recoup $30,000. Unfortunately, usually with an agreement to repay comes an agreement for the client to be quiet.

Those who have been harmed by Narconon need to complain to state regulatory agencies and others for something to be done. Even then, there is no guarantee that any action will be taken other than a slap on the wrist.   
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline VONSTEPHANSON III

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Re: Narconon NO REFUND POLICY
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2011, 14:49 »
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« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 15:44 by VONSTEPHANSON III »

Offline mefree

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Re: Narconon NO REFUND POLICY
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2011, 15:18 »
...
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 21:48 by mefree »
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline Sunshine

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Re: Narconon NO REFUND POLICY
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2011, 21:35 »
Vonstephanson III,

I know as they say this is a wall of text but I have bolded the parts that I think apply to your situation. The reason I have included the rest of the data is to show there is a vast amount of information available that might help you, the web link is first and then the text.
http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?cite=9CAADCS10566&db=1000937&findtype=L&fn=%5Ftop&pbc=4BF3FCBE&rlt=CLID%5FFQRLT1242863216231&rp=%2FSearch%2Fdefault%2Ewl&rs=WEBL11%2E01&service=Find&spa=CCR%2D1000&sr=TC&vr=2%2E0
9 CCR § 10566

Cal. Admin. Code tit. 9, § 10566


Barclays Official California Code of Regulations Currentness
Title 9. Rehabilitative and Developmental Services
Division 4. Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs
Chapter 5. Licensure of Residential Alcoholism or Drug Abuse Recovery or Treatment Facilities
Subchapter 3. Compliance Requirements
Article 3. Program Services
 § 10566. Admission Agreements.

(a) Fees assessed in consideration for resident recovery or treatment services shall be addressed in individual written agreements at time of admission.(b) Admission agreements shall specify the following:
(1) Services to be provided.

(2) Payment provisions.

(A) Amount assessed.

(B) Payment schedule.

(C) Refund policy.
(3) Those action, circumstances or conditions which may result in resident eviction from the facility.

(4) The consequences when a resident relapses and consumes alcohol and/or nonhealth sustaining drugs.

(5) Conditions under which the agreement may be terminated.

(c) Such agreements shall be dated and signed by the resident and the licensee no later than seven (7) days following admission. When a facility admits an individual solely for detoxification services, as defined in section 10501(a) of this subchapter, the facility shall be exempt from this requirement.
(d) Modifications to the original agreement shall be made whenever circumstances covered in the agreement change, and shall be dated and signed by the resident and the licensee.

(e) The licensee shall retain the original copy of the agreement and shall provide a copy to the resident.

(f) The licensee shall comply with all terms and conditions set forth in the admission agreement.

(g) The admission agreement shall be automatically terminated by the death of the resident. No liability or debt shall accrue after the date of death.


http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?cite=9CAADCS10569&db=1000937&findtype=L&fn=%5Ftop&pbc=4BF3FCBE&rlt=CLID%5FFQRLT4106553516231&rp=%2FSearch%2Fdefault%2Ewl&rs=WEBL11%2E01&service=Find&spa=CCR%2D1000&sr=TC&vr=2%2E0

9 CCR § 10569

Cal. Admin. Code tit. 9, § 10569


Barclays Official California Code of Regulations Currentness
Title 9. Rehabilitative and Developmental Services
Division 4. Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs
Chapter 5. Licensure of Residential Alcoholism or Drug Abuse Recovery or Treatment Facilities
Subchapter 3. Compliance Requirements
Article 3. Program Services
 § 10569. Personal Rights.

(a) Each resident shall have personal rights which include, but are not limited to, the following:
(1) The right to confidentiality as provided for in Title 42, Subchapter A, Part 2 Sections 2.1 through 2.67-1, Code of Federal Regulations.

(2) To be accorded dignity in personal relationships with staff and other persons.

(3) To be accorded safe, healthful and comfortable accommodations to meet his or her needs.

(4) To be free from intellectual, emotional and/or physical abuse.

(5) To be informed by the licensee of the provisions of law regarding complaints including but not limited to the address and telephone number of the department.

(6) To be free to attend religious services or activities of his or her choice and to have visits from a spiritual advisor provided that these services or activities do not conflict with facility program requirements. Participation in religious services will be voluntary only.

(b) All residents shall be personally advised of, and given at admission, a copy of the rights specified in (a)(1) through (6) above.

NOTE: Authority cited: Section 11834.50, Health and Safety Code. Reference: Sections 11834.01 and 11834.50, Health and Safety Code.


http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?cite=9CAADCS10513&db=1000937&findtype=L&fn=%5Ftop&pbc=4BF3FCBE&rlt=CLID%5FFQRLT3293484916231&rp=%2FSearch%2Fdefault%2Ewl&rs=WEBL11%2E01&service=Find&spa=CCR%2D1000&sr=TC&vr=2%2E0

9 CCR § 10513

Cal. Admin. Code tit. 9, § 10513


Barclays Official California Code of Regulations Currentness
Title 9. Rehabilitative and Developmental Services
Division 4. Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs
Chapter 5. Licensure of Residential Alcoholism or Drug Abuse Recovery or Treatment Facilities
Subchapter 2. Licensing Process
Article 2. Requirement for Licensure
 § 10513. Adherence to Express Conditions of Licensure.

A licensee shall not operate a facility beyond the conditions and limitations specified on the license.

Note: Authority cited: Sections 11755, 11834.50 and 11835, Health and Safety Code. Reference: Sections 11834.10 and 11834.30, Health and Safety Code.



http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?cite=9CAADCS10568&db=1000937&findtype=L&fn=%5Ftop&pbc=4BF3FCBE&rlt=CLID%5FFQRLT16158535416231&rp=%2FSearch%2Fdefault%2Ewl&rs=WEBL11%2E01&service=Find&spa=CCR%2D1000&sr=TC&vr=2%2E0


9 CCR § 10568

Cal. Admin. Code tit. 9, § 10568


Barclays Official California Code of Regulations Currentness
Title 9. Rehabilitative and Developmental Services
Division 4. Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs
Chapter 5. Licensure of Residential Alcoholism or Drug Abuse Recovery or Treatment Facilities
Subchapter 3. Compliance Requirements
Article 3. Program Services
 § 10568. Resident Records.

(a) A separate, complete, and current record shall be maintained in the facility for each resident.

(b) Each record shall contain information including but not limited to the following:
(1) Name of resident.

(2) Birthdate.

(3) Sex.

(4) Date of Admission.

(5) A signed copy of the admission agreement specified in Section 10566 of this subchapter.

(6) Health screening record, as specified in Section 10567.

(7) Record of any illness or injury requiring treatment by a physician or dentist and for which the facility provided assistance or referral for the resident in meeting necessary medical and dental needs.

(8) Record of any permitted current medication including the name of the person who prescribed the medication and instructions for its use.

(9) Date and reason for termination of services.

(c) All information and records obtained from or regarding residents shall be confidential and maintained in conformity with Title 42, Subchapter A, Part 2 Sections 2.1 through 2.67-1, Code of Federal Regulations, hereby incorporated by reference into these regulations.

(d) Resident records shall be updated as necessary to ensure current accuracy.

(e) Original or photographic reproduction of all resident records shall be retained for at least three (3) years following termination of service to the resident.

(f) A licensee that primarily provides detoxification services may be exempt from the requirements of Section 10568(b)(5),(9) of this subchapter.

Note: Authority cited: Section 11834.50, Health and Safety Code. Reference: Section 11834.01, Health and Safety Code.

http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?cite=9CAADCS10561&db=1000937&findtype=L&fn=%5Ftop&pbc=4BF3FCBE&rlt=CLID%5FFQRLT4457933317231&rp=%2FSearch%2Fdefault%2Ewl&rs=WEBL11%2E01&service=Find&spa=CCR%2D1000&sr=TC&vr=2%2E0

Cal. Admin. Code tit. 9, § 10561


Barclays Official California Code of Regulations Currentness
Title 9. Rehabilitative and Developmental Services
Division 4. Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs
Chapter 5. Licensure of Residential Alcoholism or Drug Abuse Recovery or Treatment Facilities
Subchapter 3. Compliance Requirements
Article 1. Physical Environment
 § 10561. Reporting Requirements.

(a) Each licensee or applicant shall follow the prescribed procedures of Section 10561(b) of this subchapter in the occurrence of any events identified in Section 10561(b)(1) of this subchapter.

(b) Upon the occurrence of any of the events identified in Section 10561(b)(1) of this subchapter the licensee shall make a telephonic report to department licensing staff within one (1) working day. The telephonic report is to be followed by a written report in accordance with Section 10561(b)(2) of this subchapter to the department within seven (7) days of the event. If a report to local authorities exists which meets the requirements cited, a copy of such a report will suffice for the written report required by the department.

(1) Events reported shall include:

(A) Death of any resident from any cause.

(B) Any facility related injury of any resident which requires medical treatment.

Vonstephanson III, I have a history with ADP and will help you, contact me if you have questions.

Where is the compassion??

Postscript from website below;

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Stop-Narconon/Personal/TaraJ/

Postscript
After Tara J filed her complaint, Narconon's refund coordinator, June Rosenberry, sent her a release form to sign in order to receive $20,000 of the $25,000 she'd paid. The terms of the release prohibit her from making any negative comments about Narconon, L. Ron Hubbard, or the Association for Better Living and Education (the Scientology front group that is Narconon's parent organization). After signing this form and cashing her refund check, she cannot contribute further information to this web page. As of mid-February 2005 she was doing well.
Why does Narconon, a program that claims a 78% success rate, have a "refund coordinator"? And why are refunds contingent on a promise never to disparage cult leader L. Ron Hubbard?

 A few links to reports from individuals trying recover their money.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/misc-health-specialists/narconon-southern-ca/narconon-southern-california-a-j56ee.htm
http://www.ripoffreport.com/questionable-activities/narconon/narconon-southern-california-65e3a.htm
http://www.ripoffreport.com/misc-health-specialists/narconon-southern-ca/narconon-southern-california-r-4abcd.htm
http://www.ripoffreport.com/misc-health-specialists/narconon-southern-ca/narconon-southern-california-j-7f5f3.htm

Closing;
After all the crap that the above individuals had to endure to try and recoup their money AND still try to help  their child, mother, father loved one overcome their addiction, one can understand why they succumb to the tactics of Narconon.   

Offline Sunshine

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Re: Narconon NO REFUND POLICY
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2011, 22:01 »
Vonstephanson III,

I did not include this information with my previous post due to the chance of it getting buried.

Narconon Warner Springs or whatever you want to call it has a limitation on the total number of clients and staff that they can have on site. Their Major Use Permit (MUP) limits the TOTAL number of staff and clients to 45, 30 clients and 15 staff maximum. They can have staff residing offsite and bus them in which they do (maximum on site at anytime 15) but all clients must be onsite and cannot exceed 30.

In one of your other post you mentioned a client population of fifty, twenty above the allowed by their MUP and if that is the case in violation of the fire code and at that time placing your son and all the other individuals (clients and staff) to a greater fire risk.

Please contact me if you would like more information.

Offline ethercat

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Re: Narconon NO REFUND POLICY
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2011, 20:32 »
During initial signing of the contract faxed to me by Sunshine Summit Lodge / Narconon San Diego, I received only pages 8-10. I did not notice pages 1-7 were missing until after the dispute began(which I believe is done by design). Narconon is claiming I am not able to get refund because a "NO REFUND", (page 4) form was signed. WHOAAA, wait a minute. The NO REFUND was signed by my son TWO days after he was admitted, while still under the influence of Methamphetamine. Regardless of whether or not he was, or was not under the influence, he was not the one who signed the responsible party agreement in the first place, I did! Here are some interesting points to consider.

Contract Defenses: Capacity to Contract

In order to be bound by a contract, a person must have the legal ability to form a contract in the first place.  This legal ability is called capacity to contract. A person who is unable, due to age or mental impairment, to understand what she is doing when she signs a contract may lack capacity to contract. For example, a person under legal guardianship due to a mental defect completely lacks the capacity to contract.  Any contract signed by that person is void.  In other situations, a person may not completely lack the capacity to contract.  The contract would then be voidable at the option of the party claiming incapacity, if he or she is able to prove the incapacity.

If a person signs a contract while drunk or under the influence of drugs, can that contract be enforced?  Courts are usually not very sympathetic to people who claim they were intoxicated when they signed a contract.  Generally a court will only allow the contract to be avoided if the other party to the contract knew about the intoxication and took advantage of the intoxicated person, or if the person was somehow involuntarily intoxicated (e.g. someone spiked the punch). 

I think it is safe to say Narconon would know that my son was under the influence simply because they are a fricken REHAB!!!!
The other point is, I can prove I did not receive pages 1-7, simply because they had him sign page 4 after he got there. Had I signed I signed page 4, there would have been no need for Tyler to sign it in the first place. My point of contention is Narconon took advantage by intentionally with holding pages 1-7 from me at the initial signing.

The irony in all of this is the no refund is titled "SPECIAL WAIVER FOR PERSONS ENROLLING IN THE NARCONON PROGRAM WHO HAVE TAKEN PSYCHIATRIC MEDICATIONS OR BEEN TEMPORARILY INSTITUTIONALIZED"
GO FIGURE!



Vonstephanson III,

I did not include this information with my previous post due to the chance of it getting buried.

Sunshine, getting buried on this forum?  Lol.  Not likely.    :D 

Quote
Narconon Warner Springs or whatever you want to call it has a limitation on the total number of clients and staff that they can have on site. Their Major Use Permit (MUP) limits the TOTAL number of staff and clients to 45, 30 clients and 15 staff maximum. They can have staff residing offsite and bus them in which they do (maximum on site at anytime 15) but all clients must be onsite and cannot exceed 30.

In one of your other post you mentioned a client population of fifty, twenty above the allowed by their MUP and if that is the case in violation of the fire code and at that time placing your son and all the other individuals (clients and staff) to a greater fire risk.

Please contact me if you would like more information.

Good to see you here again.  Thanks for posting this.   :) 

« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 22:12 by ethercat »
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Offline mefree

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Re: Narconon NO REFUND POLICY
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2011, 07:19 »
.....
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 19:06 by mefree »
The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.
-Dalai Lama

Offline VONSTEPHANSON III

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Re: Narconon NO REFUND POLICY
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2011, 15:15 »
removed
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 15:44 by VONSTEPHANSON III »

Offline ethercat

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Re: Narconon NO REFUND POLICY
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2011, 11:01 »
Quoting for posterity.

01-20-11
 
Douglas DiPaola
Vice President,Dispute Resolution
American Express Company,
 
SUPPLEMENT TO DISPUTE #-------
 
Dear Douglas,
 
This is in response to the statements made by Narconon about it's contract involving the “NO REFUND” clause on page 4 of the Narconon contract. As well, I want to clarify with applicable law my disagreement with Narconon on the nondelivery of services promised and orally contracted.
 
During initial signing I received only pages 8-10 via fax to my home. Pages 1-7 were not presented to me, nor did I become aware of “no refund”, until the November 19, 2010 letter from in response from American Express. I have reason to believe pages 1-7 were intentionally with held from me by design, as page 4 was signed by my son, the next day after he was admitted into the facility. My signature is missing from that page.  Narconon should be asked to supply you with proof that they faxed me all the pages. I contend that they cannot supply it because this simply did not happen.
 
I might add, page 4 was presented to my son for signing on 08-23-2010, yet it is I who was the paying party. Additionally, he would not have been capable of entering into a binding contract with Narconon in terms of no refund as they stated, simply because he was not the responsible party for payment and was under the influence of Methamphetamine at the time of signing. This contract is highly questionable as to whether it is binding and a violation of California law.
 
In order to be bound by a contract, a person must have the legal ability to form a contract in the first place. This legal ability is called capacity to contract. A person who is unable, due to age or mental impairment, to understand what she is doing when she signs a contract may lack capacity to contract.  Any contract signed by that person is void. In other situations, a person may not completely lack the capacity to contract. The contract would then be voidable at the option of the party claiming incapacity, if he or she is able to prove the incapacity.
 
California law will only allow the contract to be voided if the other party to the contract knew about the intoxication and took advantage of the intoxicated person, or if the person was somehow involuntarily intoxicated In this case Narconon took advantage of my son and knew of his intoxicated state which voids any contract entered into, or any portion thereof. My son was still in the withdrawal portion of the program at the time of signing. Why else would he be in a rehab in the first place?  This practice of getting someone who is in withdrawal from Methamphetamine to sign a contract or form is legally questionable and highly unethical at best. This is not the first complaint about Narconon doing this with patients.  This also occurred in the Locatelli vs Narconon Southern California complaint, which Narconon settled quickly once it went to court.
 
In addition, my son was not the cardholder and did not pay for services. Furthermore, if Narconon claims that I received pages 1-7, which I did not - before during or after my dealings with them - there would have been no reason for Narconon to ask my son to sign page 4 after he was admitted in the first place. I was NEVER informed of Narconon's "no refund" policy in any of the telephone conversation I had with the intake person Tonya or any other staff by phone or in person.  This is a grave violation of federal law to not have informed me of all the particulars of their "no refund" policy before they took my money.
 
I was never provided with papers to sign when I signed pages 8-10 and paid for services on 08-21-2010,  upon his admittance, and I was never informed that I would be required to sign papers or that I would be receiving papers to sign in respect to any “no refund” policy. 
 
If you read the Admission Agreement signed by my son, provided to you by Narconon, you will see he was admitted on 08-22-2010. He then signed the “SPECIAL WAIVER FOR PERSONS ENROLLING IN HE NARCONON PROGRAM WHO HAVE TAKEN PSYCHIATRIC MEDICATIONS OR HAVE BEEN TEMPORARILY INSTITUTIONALIZED” form on 08-23-2010, which included the “no refund” statement. By Narconons own admission as the header of this form indicates, they were aware of his condition at the time of signing.
 
It was also a violation of California Drug Alcohol Program law - which they are subject to - that I was not informed that their program was in contrast to what is required by the state. Narconon's definition & practice of group and individual therapy was nontraditional and not in accordance with ADP regulations regarding the definitions for rehab facilities in the State of California. ( see below).
 
In addition to this, Narconon was in violation of federal trade law in respect to: “Non-receipts of Goods or Services Dispute” and “Quality of Goods or Services Dispute”, as I outlined in my original dispute letter to you. I have provided you with excerpts of the law, below, so that you can see what was required on Narconon's part.
 
“Service Not As Described:
 
My son was not given Individual or Group Sessions as defined and required by the state of California, they were given by other students and former students as interns. As well, the personnel at the site in charge of ensuring his medical and disability needs were met were not licensed
or experienced. The services he received were not as described to us by phone and in person, nor were they in accordance with California Administrative codes as follows:
 
Cal. Admin. Code tit. 9, § 10564
BARCLAYS OFFICIAL CALIFORNIA CODE OF REGULATIONS
TITLE 9. REHABILITATIVE AND DEVELOPMENTAL SERVICES
DIVISION 4. DEPARTMENT OF ALCOHOL AND DRUG PROGRAMS
CHAPTER 5. LICENSURE OF RESIDENTIAL ALCOHOLISM OR DRUG ABUSE RECOVERY OR
TREATMENT FACILITIES
SUBCHAPTER 3. COMPLIANCE REQUIREMENTS
ARTICLE 2. STAFFING STANDARDS
 
Unlicensed staff , not licensed AOD counselors provided the services and did so in an inexperienced and dangerous manner. Additionally, there were no licensed medical staff, as promised.
 
Cal. Admin. Code tit. 9, § 10501
BARCLAYS OFFICIAL CALIFORNIA CODE OF REGULATIONS
TITLE 9. REHABILITATIVE AND DEVELOPMENTAL SERVICES
DIVISION 4. DEPARTMENT OF ALCOHOL AND DRUG PROGRAMS
CHAPTER 5. LICENSURE OF RESIDENTIAL ALCOHOLISM OR DRUG ABUSE RECOVERY OR
TREATMENT FACILITIES
SUBCHAPTER 1. PURPOSE AND DEFINITIONS
ARTICLE 2. DEFINITIONS
§ 10501. Definitions.
 
(a) The following general definitions shall apply to terminology used in Chapter 5, except where specifically noted otherwise:
 
(14) "Education Session" means a planned, structured, didactic presentation of information related to alcoholism and alcohol or drug abuse.
(19) "Group Session" means group interaction that encourages residents to
identify and resolve alcohol- and/or drug-related problems, to examine personal attitudes and behavior, and provides support for positive changes in life style and recovery from alcoholism and/or drug abuse.
(21)"Individual Session" means a private interaction between a resident and program staff which focuses on identification and resolution of alcohol- and/or drug-related problems, to examine personal attitudes and behavior and other barriers to recovery. [..]
 
Because of this and the additional complaints, I decided to remove my son and cancel the service, and move my son to another facility. I can also point out, as follows, where Narconon failed to follow federal trade laws, as I was never informed of a “No Refund” policy in contract prior to payment. It was also a violation of law that I was not informed that their definition & practice of group and individual therapy was nontraditional and not in accordance with ADP regulations regarding the definitions for rehab facilities, which I informed you about in my original dispute letter.
 
FEDERAL TRADE LAW Title 16: Commercial Practices PART 310—TELEMARKETING SALES RULE Section Contents § 310.1 Scope of regulations in this part.
 
§ 310.2 Definitions.
§ 310.3 Deceptive telemarketing acts or practices.
§ 310.4 Abusive telemarketing acts or practices.
§ 310.5 Recordkeeping requirements.
§ 310.6 Exemptions.
§ 310.7 Actions by states and private persons.
§ 310.8 Fee for access to the National Do Not Call Registry.
§ 310.9 Severability.
 
You, the bank, know exactly what the law is on consumer transactions and chargeback requests such as this and the law is clear that I was to be informed on my side of the refund policy and program description and my rights BEFORE the money was taken. I was NOT informed and Narconon has provided NO proof that I was or that I agreed to what they were delivering as services because what he received was not the services I was told he would receive before I paid them the money. In addition to that as I previously stated in the first letter to you, they clearly omit their treatment methodology used in regard to books by L. Ron Hubbard created  as scripture for the The Church of Scientology.
 
 
Sincerely,
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